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Originally Posted by BloodEclipse  Why exactly would you have the need to produce ID in the first place? |
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Originally Posted by stiffy I'm under the impression that in indiana you have to produce it if they ask for it... but really there was no reason. i look young maybe he thought i wasnt 21 and could hit me for minor consumption? |
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Originally Posted by gomez.ra8 One lafayette officer refused to believe my permit was valid, and made me sit on the curb for about 20 minutes while he checked. |
The only time someone is _required_ to identify themselves is for an ordinance or infraction violation:
IC 34-28-5-3.5 Refusal to identify self
Sec. 3.5. A person who knowingly or intentionally refuses to provide either the person's:
(1) name, address, and date of birth; or
(2) driver's license, if in the person's possession;
to a law enforcement officer who has stopped the person for an infraction or ordinance violation commits a Class C misdemeanor.
Now, if the officer thought the person looked to be under 21 years old, the officer has the right to detain the individual and investigate the crime of illegal possession (for alcohol). Technically, as soon as an ID is shown, and it is confirmed the person is 21, they should be free to leave. If you refuse to show an ID, then if the officer honestly believes the person is under 21, and they have probable cause to believe the person illegally consumed alcohol, they could arrest them. Obviously the charges would be dismissed in court later on.
Now with having the gun, this is the gray area that courts around the country are weighing in on. Right now, it seems to be in states where OCing is legal, no permit needed, and cops are detaining people when there is no violation of law. In Indiana, carrying is illegal in any manner, unless you have a permit and/or are a member of an exempted group. However, even if you have a permit, it still doesn't mean you are legal. People can get convicted of crimes which would negate their right to own/possess a handgun, yet due to paperwork issues, whatever, they still have that permit. Then the question becomes: If an officer stops someone with a gun, they display a permit, can the officer still investigate to make sure that:
#1: The permit is valid (dispatchers can do this via a computer)?
#2: Even if the computer system shows the permit is valid, can the officer then run a criminal history check to make sure this person wasn't one who has slipped through the cracks and some how got and/or still has a permit they shouldn't?
These are questions that will only be answered when judges rule on them. Until then, they are open to interpretation and are not set in stone as of yet.
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Originally Posted by BloodEclipse So what if you had been drinking?
No harm in getting a ride home. |
As already discussed, there could be an under-21 issue. However, another issue would be if the passenger looks so intoxicated, that further investigation needs to be done. Or maybe the driver appeared so nervous, that the officer though something more was up. My wife is kinda like this...just can't handle stress at all. She crashed her car recently and was a total wreck. Thankfully I was close-by so I was able to help her out. An LEO would have thought she was crazy, (even I do when she ends up like she did), but some people are just like that. It is always best to investigate a little more if possible. Maybe such a person is being held against their will? Maybe they are wanted? Etc.. While one could get arrested for public intoxication in this instance, there was an appeals court ruling a while back where the judges basically wrote that the PI statue be over-looked when someone is doing the right thing by not driving.
That being said, I wouldn't care about the law so much. I would worry more about liability/trying to protect someone more than making an arrest. If an officer makes a legal stop, those people are under the officer's control and the officer is responsible for them in various manners. If passengers want to leave, they can. However, if an severely intoxicated person tries to leave, an officer might have to detain them and have them taken to the hospital/or arrest them for public intoxication since they might be a danger to themselves (walking/falling into the street, passing out when it is zero degrees outside, etc.). Even if the person doesn't try to leave the scene, if they appear to be so intoxicated, to the point they don't know what is going on around them...an officer has a decision to make. Does the officer let the totally passed out drunk female go, taking five guys word that they are her friends? What if it is just one guy? There are many reasons why officers may try to pry into things, even if they appear non-criminal. It isn't that the officer is just trying to find someone to arrest. If I had a daughter and she had been drugged and was in a car full of guys who were for the most part sober, I would rather her go to jail for PI and/or the hospital for evaluation rather than gang raped.
Just something to think about when viewing the job of an LEO.