Better caliber in an apartment: 9mm or .40 S&W?

[fg12351]

I'm looking at purchasing my first handgun for self defense/home protection/target shooting. I'm looking at a Glock 19 (9mm) or 23 (.40 S&W).

I've shot both with about the same accuracy at 21 feet and am comfortable with both. I like the .40 S&W because frankly it makes bigger holes and packs more punch.

My question is, I live in a small apartment with other apartments all around. What would be a better/safer caliber in case I would have to use it on an intruder? My future house is also small and has other houses built very close together.

I would like to lessen the chance of any over-penetration into another apartment or home and collateral damage or god forbid hurting someone in another apartment or home if I miss and put one into the wall.

I don't consider MagSafe or Glazer ammunition an acceptable solution due to price and inconsistent results I've read. Would a slower load help?

Thanks,

FG12351

 

[Metro 40]

.

 

[WestSider]

9mm is an adequate SD round and will cost you less to shoot.

 

[doublebarrel]

Whichever you choose, lighter and faster JHP loads tend to penetrate less, not more. This is due to their energy being used up in the violent expansion of the hollowpoint, which increases the bullet's surface area and resistance, thus reducing penetration.

Another reason heavier bullets penetrate deeper is because of their higher sectional density. When everything else equals, higher sectional density gives more penetration...

Now, for shooting in an apartment, what I read is that, all common service calibers, 9, 40, etc., all of the available types of ammo, *including* Glaser Safety Slugs (blue or silver. I used to carry silver Glaser), will penetrate through the wall and go into your neighbor's quarters. So light or heavy, if you miss the target the results may not be much different. Since the only real stopping power is "shot placement", you might pick one caliber you can shoot most accurate first. Most peope shoot 9 better than 40 or 45. Then, select the bullet that will go at least 12 inches deep (a human torso front to back, is about 12 inches). 16 inches would be even better, and the skin on a human's back side, is equal to about 4 inches of muscle. And if your BG is trying to shoot you at the same time, they got their arms in front of them pointing a gun at you. You bullet may have to go through their arm to reach their torso. 16 inches is a good choice. Even if your bullets do overpenetrate, they don't have much energy left. And two holes bleeds better than one (bigger holes better than smaller ones). Bleeding is the only dependable incapacitation means, other than a direct hit in the central nervous system...

 

[fg12351]

thanks guys!

I'm going to try and get to the range this week and rent and shoot a .40 and 9 and then decide what I should better, that seems to be the most important thing. Thanks again for the input!

 

[Scutter01]

How about a shotgun in an apartment?

 

[shawkpilot]

I was thinking a youth 20 gauge would be a good defense gun. They even come in all black for the tacticool look. Youth sized stock and barrel for swinging in close quarters.

 

[melensdad]

I personally would go with the 9mm.

Use a bullet designed for the task. The Hornaday TAP ammo is designed so that it does no penetrate too many walls.

 

[pmpmstrb]

Another reason heavier bullets penetrate deeper is because of their higher sectional density. When everything else equals, higher sectional density gives more penetration...

Now, for shooting in an apartment, what I read is that, all common service calibers, 9, 40, etc., all of the available types of ammo, *including* Glaser Safety Slugs (blue or silver. I used to carry silver Glaser), will penetrate through the wall and go into your neighbor's quarters. So light or heavy, if you miss the target the results may not be much different. Since the only real stopping power is "shot placement", you might pick one caliber you can shoot most accurate first. Most peope shoot 9 better than 40 or 45. Then, select the bullet that will go at least 12 inches deep (a human torso front to back, is about 12 inches). 16 inches would be even better, and the skin on a human's back side, is equal to about 4 inches of muscle. And if your BG is trying to shoot you at the same time, they got their arms in front of them pointing a gun at you. You bullet may have to go through their arm to reach their torso. 16 inches is a good choice. Even if your bullets do overpenetrate, they don't have much energy left. And two holes bleeds better than one (bigger holes better than smaller ones). Bleeding is the only dependable incapacitation means, other than a direct hit in the central nervous system...

I agree here. It really doesn't matter what caliber or round you pick if you miss you stand a very good chance of going into your neighbor's apt. I would go with the 9mm only because it is cheaper and you can do more training with it so as to not miss. If you're a baller and ammo price isn't an issue than go with .40. Both will be equally effective in stopping power if you chose the proper defense round. Just about any of the modern hollow points will do you good, just don't ask anyone on here to agree on just one

 

[obijohn]

the shotgun MAY be a good choice. if you limit yourself to "birdshot" and are careful about fields of fire...
our research tells us that the 55g m193 tends to breakup, almost explode, in drywall and that is my choice for home defense. this tendency and, what i've seen shooting at dummy walls, what may penetrate is of little or no consequence. the drywall fragments seemed to do the most damage on the backside of the wall, and that isn't much.
the suggestion for lighter, high velocity bullets is good data. BUT, if you don't hit what you are shooting at, most defensive pistol rounds will penetrate both sides of an interior sheet rock wall.

 

[Rookie]

How about a shotgun in an apartment?

I completely agree. I have a .40 USP in a gun vault beside my bed for home defense. Guess what? It's there as a stop gap until my wife can get me my shotgun. IMO, shotguns are the best for home defense. First, just about everyone knows what is going on when you rack the slide on a shotgun. Second, the advantage of a shotgun is that you don't have to be as accurate - just aim in the general direction. Third, a shotgun is much more effective for stopping a bad guy. In an area as small as your house the distance will be close enough that a shotgun all but guarantees that the bad guy will not want to get up. Worried about penetration? Load up some birdshot. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but a load of birdshot is not going to make someone's day. Personally, I use buckshot because my house is set up that someone coming down the hall is going to get the full effect and I don't have to worry about background.

9mm versus .40? I prefer a .40 because bigger is always better (so I keep hearing from my wife ), but I would advise you not to rely on it as a primary source of home defense...

 

[obijohn]

I completely agree. I have a .40 USP in a gun vault beside my bed for home defense. Guess what? It's there as a stop gap until my wife can get me my shotgun. IMO, shotguns are the best for home defense. First, just about everyone knows what is going on when you rack the slide on a shotgun. Second, the advantage of a shotgun is that you don't have to be as accurate - just aim in the general direction. Third, a shotgun is much more effective for stopping a bad guy. In an area as small as your house the distance will be close enough that a shotgun all but guarantees that the bad guy will not want to get up. Worried about penetration? Load up some birdshot. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but a load of birdshot is not going to make someone's day. Personally, I use buckshot because my house is set up that someone coming down the hall is going to get the full effect and I don't have to worry about background.

9mm versus .40? I prefer a .40 because bigger is always better (so I keep hearing from my wife ), but I would advise you not to rely on it as a primary source of home defense...

i sort of agree with everything here EXCEPT, "just aim in the general direction". shoot your shotgun, at a distance that mimics a shot in your house, and observe the pattern. you do need to carefully aim a shotgun. the benefit in this regard over a handgun is that it is easier to index a shotgun.

 

[rcuhljr]

the shotgun MAY be a good choice. if you limit yourself to "birdshot" and are careful about fields of fire...
our research tells us that the 55g m193 tends to breakup, almost explode, in drywall and that is my choice for home defense. this tendency and, what i've seen shooting at dummy walls, what may penetrate is of little or no consequence. the drywall fragments seemed to do the most damage on the backside of the wall, and that isn't much.
the suggestion for lighter, high velocity bullets is good data. BUT, if you don't hit what you are shooting at, most defensive pistol rounds will penetrate both sides of an interior sheet rock wall.

This is very much the case, the FBI did a LOT of testing of penetration through normal housing walls, and barring birdshot, high velocity light bullets like the .223/5.56 had less wounding potential after passing through a normal wall then any pistol/slug/00 buck etc.

 

[Vigilant]

I would agree to a 5.56mm rifle with m193, but birdshot for serious self defense is probably not a good idea, as penetration sometimes isn't near enough to penetrate thick or heavy clothing. If you must use a shotgun, use buckshot, or slugs. To actually answer the question, 9mm in 115 or 124 grain loadings in proper personal defense ammo will be fine, and the G19 is the perfect Glock!

 

[Rookie]

i sort of agree with everything here EXCEPT, "just aim in the general direction". shoot your shotgun, at a distance that mimics a shot in your house, and observe the pattern. you do need to carefully aim a shotgun. the benefit in this regard over a handgun is that it is easier to index a shotgun.

You are probably right, I guess I need to actually shoot at 15 feet before I make this statement.

 

[schwaky18]

Would agree that a shotgun would be best, but if handgun I would say .40 over 9mm. You never know what crazy drugged up bad guy will break in your house and for a guy out of his mind a .40 would be more effective I think.

 

[BloodEclipse]

I personally would go with the 9mm.

Use a bullet designed for the task. The Hornaday TAP ammo is designed so that it does no penetrate too many walls.

For the choices you have indicated, I would have to agree with the 9mm.

 

[ryanmercer]

Just put diamond plate all over your walls and call it 'interior decoration'

No seriously though if you want something for home defense only... I'd go with a shotgun. I've got the mossberg by the bed, the first round is rubber-ball, everything after that isn't. If the sound doesn't scare them off, getting punched with rubber balls might, and if not they die.

 

[KevinH]

I'd agree with those that say it's more important give the BG the round than the wall. And in a stressful situation you really don't know what you will do without lots of practice. Get those muscle memories in place. Remember, when the SHTF you mind goes into a fight or flight mode, fine motor skills go away so if you haven't trained your muscles to do the right thing you will just spray and pray. I keep my 12 ga. near, my Glock 19 and 26 handy, a light and some spare mags all within reach. My wife keeps in her room (yes I snore and she is a light sleeper) her S&W 642 and Glock 19 at the ready. They are all loaded with Hydro-shock ammo. Night sights seem to be pretty handy as well.
Kevin

 

[slacker]

I completely agree. I have a .40 USP in a gun vault beside my bed for home defense. Guess what? It's there as a stop gap until my wife can get me my shotgun. IMO, shotguns are the best for home defense. First, just about everyone knows what is going on when you rack the slide on a shotgun. Second, the advantage of a shotgun is that you don't have to be as accurate - just aim in the general direction. Third, a shotgun is much more effective for stopping a bad guy. In an area as small as your house the distance will be close enough that a shotgun all but guarantees that the bad guy will not want to get up. Worried about penetration? Load up some birdshot. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but a load of birdshot is not going to make someone's day. Personally, I use buckshot because my house is set up that someone coming down the hall is going to get the full effect and I don't have to worry about background.

9mm versus .40? I prefer a .40 because bigger is always better (so I keep hearing from my wife ), but I would advise you not to rely on it as a primary source of home defense...

You forgot that you can use a shot gun as a club for close-quarters / hand to hand combat

I have my mossberg 500a under my bed loaded up with birdshot, my glock 19 is right next to it. I would go for the mossberg 500 first, but its nice having options. I feel quite competent with both of them.