45 ACP overall length

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  • ptt811

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    Nov 26, 2010
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    I am not new to reloading but I am new to the 45 ACP, I have a rock Island. I got some brass, ordered a LEE 4 die set and tried to reload some tonight. I am using a 230 gr. round nose Lead bullet. I did 10 and tried to chamber some. They wouldn't let the slide close all the way, it was close but not closed. After messing around some I discovered that if I set the bullet a little deeper it worked fine. Question: My Chip Mc Cormick mag says overall length at least 1.260 ? At 1.260 mine wouldn't chamber. At 1.240 it worked great ! So.... Is this over all length critical ? I suspect the Bullet Dia. is trying to push inside the barrel as the bullet is stepped down some at the rounded part start. I haven't tried to fire the Gun as it was dark outside. Will the gun still function OK with the shorter over all length ?? Any help is appriciated.
     

    Drail

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    First you need to determine if the problem is your chamber or your ammo. Is this a new gun? Have you successfully fired factory ball rounds in it? With the barrel removed from the gun will a factory hardball round drop into the chamber fully and fall back out when you point the bbl. up? If it does set your dies up to load a handload at the same length. If it drops in and falls out I would then look at the extractor's finish inside the hook and its tension. Most "fails to go into battery" problems can be traced to the extractor or a tight chamber that was not finished to spec with a finish reamer or a handload that was flared a lot and crimped a little. A light taper crimp is all you need. A 230 gr. ball round loaded to 1.275 should drop fully into and out of a chamber that is in spec. A 230 gr. ball round loaded at 1.240 is in my opinion too short and is going to affect proper headspace and mag release point timing. I'm thinking your bbl. slipped over a reaming operation on the assembly line. Check it with a factory ball round or a resized empty case or a dial caliper depth reading - should be .895" to 890" max.
     
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    mospeada

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    Don't use your magazine to determine the correct OAL of a cartridge, period. You need to find the correct OAL in a Reloading Manual or powder manufacturer's website. Cross check the info you get as sometimes one source is incorrect (three sources is a good start).

    I use CMC mags in my 1911s and could care less what Chip has to say about the ammo.
     

    Leadeye

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    OAL is often an issue when you reload. Pick what works for your gun. I usually check OAL with a new bullet by making up a dummy and checking chambering. I look for rifeling marks on the bullet if I have trouble first then try running it through a Lee factory crimp die if I think it is a tight chamber problem.:)
     

    Aszerigan

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    45ACP is one of the pickiest rounds to reload when you're dealing with OAL and headspace. In my opinion, going from 1.26 to 1.24 shouldn't an issue, but I would back off by 0.2gns of powder to start, just to eliminate any chances of overpressure.

    Since 45ACP gauges on the headspacing (and headspacing is critical), a crimp may help your loads as well. Good move buying the Lee 4-die set, the extra (and seperate) crimp die is a lifesaver with this picky round. Ensure that your crimp is hitting the brass - alot of times with lead bullets with high edges, the crimp ends up on the bullet, not on the brass. A light crimp is all you need, just enough to taper the case to the bullet.

    Also, when you're expanding the case mouth slightly, make sure you're not flaring the case too much. Your bullet seating die will bring the case back in, but over expansion will cause the round not to chamber, and will prevent the slide going into full battery.

    Check your expansion and try the crimp die first, and if this doesn't work, drop the powder load and deep seat slightly. Since you're using lead bullets and lighter powder loads, your velocities will be low enough not to worry too much about a 0.02" margin.
     
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    walker

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    Dec 10, 2010
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    Lee Second Edition page#671 230 Grain Lead Bullet Min.OAL 23 different powders listed, different Min.OAL Max OAL listed in my manuals 1.275 I started reloading 45ACP for my Kimber a year ago. Had to play around with the OAL. I have seen reloads work great in one gun, but not in another. .010-.015 OAL can be the difference between a round chambering and you standind there saying WTH....
     

    billybob44

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    Sep 22, 2010
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    +1 To Azg.post #5. I had the same problem with my CZ-75, in 9MM, using Missouri Bullet Co. Small Ball.
    What I did was back down the powder charge .5gr. and seated the bullet to where it would not bottom out on the rifling in the chamber.
    I ended up having to "Tweak" out my .45acp. loads also=Loads that would fit just fine in my Series 80 Colt would not fit right in my Kimber with a match chamber.
    As said here before, drop a factory load into your barrel chamber and listen for the "clink"-seat your loads-a LITTLE at a time, until you hear the same "clink". Use a "dummy" load to do this because you will have to taper crimp for case head space and may have to push the bullet deeper into case to hear the "clink". When you do this you probably will loose your case neck tension, and bullet may not be tight enough in the case.
    Remember, the SIZING die sets your case neck tension to the bullet-NOT your crimp die. The crimp die (On a semi-auto, straight wall case) only removes the flair that is placed in the case, to start the bullet straight. This is true of all taper crimp cases==ROLL crimp is another story!!
    Hope this helps..Bill..:dunno:
     

    45pro

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    On the hodgdons site is says OAL is 1.20 with titegroup. How much difference is there between manufacturers? but how much is really TOO short or TOO long? is it that IF the OAL was say....1.25 that there would likely be more powder needed to create the same round pressures since the OAL would be longer? Am i understanding it correctly?
     

    ANeat

    Plinker
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    Jan 25, 2011
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    45 pro you have the right idea. Less OAL = higher pressure with everything else being equal. More OAL = less pressure. Its not as critical in 45acp, In 9mm and 40S&W with less volume and operating at higher pressure you need to be much more carefull.

    Here is a good example, 3 different 45 230rn bullets. Now if all were loaded to the same OAL you would have 3 different pressures because none are the same base to tip.
    The powder companies have no idea which bullet you will use so they can only give you a general idea.
    45RN.jpg
     

    45pro

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    45 pro you have the right idea. Less OAL = higher pressure with everything else being equal. More OAL = less pressure. Its not as critical in 45acp, In 9mm and 40S&W with less volume and operating at higher pressure you need to be much more carefull.

    Here is a good example, 3 different 45 230rn bullets. Now if all were loaded to the same OAL you would have 3 different pressures because none are the same base to tip.
    The powder companies have no idea which bullet you will use so they can only give you a general idea.
    45RN.jpg

    Ic...so all those bullets are different but they would all be loaded with the same OAL but with different amounts of grains in them? Or is it that they would all be loaded with a different OAL and loaded with the same amount of grains...?
     

    ANeat

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    Ic...so all those bullets are different but they would all be loaded with the same OAL but with different amounts of grains in them? Or is it that they would all be loaded with a different OAL and loaded with the same amount of grains...?

    Yes, either way. Its up to the individual.

    For OAL in a semi auto youre limited to the magazine for max OAL, or what the chamber will accept.... and on something like a RN bullet you dont want to seat past where it starts to get round. Plus you have to settle on something that will feed if its a semi auto.

    In that min/max it really doesent matter. Settle on something and then work up the load.
     

    45pro

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    Yes, either way. Its up to the individual.

    For OAL in a semi auto youre limited to the magazine for max OAL, or what the chamber will accept.... and on something like a RN bullet you dont want to seat past where it starts to get round. Plus you have to settle on something that will feed if its a semi auto.

    In that min/max it really doesent matter. Settle on something and then work up the load.

    So theres no set number for it being too short or long? as long as its short enough to feed and long enough that the edge of the casing doesn't go past where it starts to get round....hmm....So i guess theres not actual number? it will be different depending on the length of the bullet. Does the manual give you the amount of grains depending on the size of the bullet? i know it does with the grain of the bullet but what about the length?

    Hopefully i'll be getting my manuals in the next few days.
     

    Drail

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    The set number is going to be determined by the chamber of your gun's barrel. That's where the cartridge has to go. The round has to drop in and seat fully. If the OAL required for your chamber is within industry specs (it will be) and a magazine won't feed it, the magazine or its spring is the problem. Or maybe a rough too tight extractor. But to determine the correct OAL, use the bbl. from your pistol.
     

    45pro

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    The set number is going to be determined by the chamber of your gun's barrel. That's where the cartridge has to go. The round has to drop in and seat fully. If the OAL required for your chamber is within industry specs (it will be) and a magazine won't feed it, the magazine or its spring is the problem. Or maybe a rough too tight extractor. But to determine the correct OAL, use the bbl. from your pistol.

    ok thanks
     

    ANeat

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    Jan 25, 2011
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    The only bullet specific manuals are the ones that the bullet manufactures put out. For example Speer or Hornadys manuals will list specific data for their specific bullets.
     

    45pro

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    The only bullet specific manuals are the ones that the bullet manufactures put out. For example Speer or Hornadys manuals will list specific data for their specific bullets.

    One of the manuals i ordered was speer, the other was ABC reloading
     

    ghitch75

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    take the barrel out the gun that will be shootin' these and to the drop in test.....drop a rd in chamber if it don't fall out when you turn it over try a little deeper seat and a little more crimp till it falls out.....1.23 OAL and .472 mouth with lead RN 230gr is what works out good in all my 1911's....
     

    aetucker1

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    My dads rock island has the same problem that you are having. I reload with a 1.230 oal on hornady 230 FMJ RN. I noticed that there was no problem feeding the round into the barrel itself, but when my dad would rack the first round, he would hang on to the slide a little bit. This made the round not fully chamber and get caught on the extractor. Try to pull the slide all the way back and just let go and see if you still have an issue. It may not necessarily be your loads. I sort of chalked the issue up to the gun not being fully broken in as well.
     

    cakelly1962

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    My dads rock island has the same problem that you are having. I reload with a 1.230 oal on hornady 230 FMJ RN. I noticed that there was no problem feeding the round into the barrel itself, but when my dad would rack the first round, he would hang on to the slide a little bit. This made the round not fully chamber and get caught on the extractor. Try to pull the slide all the way back and just let go and see if you still have an issue. It may not necessarily be your loads. I sort of chalked the issue up to the gun not being fully broken in as well.

    I reload with a SDB in 45ACP at 1.275 with a Berrys 230gn round nose. I set the crimp by using my barrel out of the gun. Drop it in make sure it seats all the way down and then turn barrell upside down and it should fall out.
     

    Prometheus

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    I reload with a SDB in 45ACP at 1.275 with a Berrys 230gn round nose. I set the crimp by using my barrel out of the gun. Drop it in make sure it seats all the way down and then turn barrell upside down and it should fall out.

    That's about the depth my SDB came with. IMO it's way too long and it's well beyond all the published load data I've seen. I called Dillon and the guy said "that's how we set them all".

    Anyway, I load mine at 1.234 (RN and SWC) which is and ideal depth for the TRP. It also feeds fine in my FNP-45 as well.

    I don't think 1.275 will even fit in some magazines.
     
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