.30-30 vs. .30 carbine

[darend505]

How much of a difference is there between these two size loads?

I can tell there is some difference, but I am wondering what the biggest difference there is.

Sorry for the stupid ?

 

[sloughfoot]

Not a stupid question.

The 30 carbine can be compared to a 357 magnum pistol.

The 30-30 can be compared to a 7.62X39 out of an SKS or AK47.

Huge difference between the two.

 

[darend505]

Thank you for the reply! I recently acquired a .30-30 and have not had a chance to shoot it. I found an interesting .30 carbine I would not mind getting. To bad the ammo is not interchangeable!

Now I just need to find a .30-06!!!

 

[sloughfoot]

The 30 carbine is a 110 grain bullet at 1600 fps.

The 7.62X39 is a 123 grain bullet at 2200 fps.

The 30.06 is a 150 grain bullet at 2700 fps.

More or less....

 

[darend505]

I really need to get to the range more often. I have only shot:
.22
12 gauge
16 gauge
9mm

 

[NullSyndrome]

The 30 carbine is a 110 grain bullet at 1600 fps.

The 7.62X39 is a 123 grain bullet at 2200 fps.

The 30.06 is a 150 grain bullet at 2700 fps.

More or less....

Factory loaded 110gr .30 carbine ammo is all listing 1990 fps to 2025 fps.
My Lyman reloading manual lists loads in that neighborhood too, so the rounds are a lot closer to each other than I thought.

I'd like to pick up a .30 carbine, but unfortunately it's pretty far down the list of things I can't afford right now. I'd still take the 7.62x39 in a fight if I had the choice.

 

[sloughfoot]

Factory loaded 110gr .30 carbine ammo is all listing 1990 fps to 2025 fps.
My Lyman reloading manual lists loads in that neighborhood too, so the rounds are a lot closer to each other than I thought.

I'd like to pick up a .30 carbine, but unfortunately it's pretty far down the list of things I can't afford right now. I'd still take the 7.62x39 in a fight if I had the choice.

You are correct about the 30 carbine. I listed the pistol velocity not the rifle velocity. The real differnce is that the 30 Carbine is effective at a much shorter range than the 7.62X39.

200 yards is really stretching it for the 30 carbine where 300 or farther is GTG for the 7.62X39.

 

[Broom_jm]

Heck, 100 yards is stretching it for the 30 Carbine, unless you mount a better sight on it!

What is missing from this discussion is that the 30/30 is loaded with much heavier bullets than either the 30 Carbine OR the 7.62x39. A standard 30/30 load uses a 150gr or 170gr bullet at 2,400 and 2,200fps, respectively. The bullets for the 30/30 are intended for big game hunting and do a far better job than the lighter bullets used in the other cartridges. The 30/30 is much closer to a 30-'06, while the 30 carbine is essentially a magnum pistol round and the 7.62x39 is just an underpowered rifle cartridge.

The 30 Carbine and 7.62x39 were both designed as anti-personnel rounds, while the 30/30 was designed largely for sporting purposes. In a nutshell: The first two are highly marginal choices for deer, while the 30/30 is a very GOOD choice for hunting most big game, at distances of 150 yards, or so.

 

[fireball168]

I've been playing around with a Savage bolt gun in 30 Carbine the last few weeks, amazing what an easy swap it was with a .223 bolt head.

Accuracy has been surprising too.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I've been playing around with a Savage bolt gun in 30 Carbine the last few weeks, amazing what an easy swap it was with a .223 bolt head.

Accuracy has been surprising too.

That sounds like a lot of fun!!!

Along the lines of the older Ruger rotary-magazined (Deerslayer?) carbines in .44Mag... I think that a similar rifle in .30 Carbine would be FANTASTIC.

-J-

 

[NullSyndrome]

That sounds like a lot of fun!!!

Along the lines of the older Ruger rotary-magazined (Deerslayer?) carbines in .44Mag... I think that a similar rifle in .30 Carbine would be FANTASTIC.

-J-

Why we're at it...how about a .30 Carbine AR upper. If for no other reason than there appears to be uppers coming out in just about anything anyways...LOL

 

[CarmelHP]

How much of a difference is there between these two size loads?

I can tell there is some difference, but I am wondering what the biggest difference there is.

Sorry for the stupid ?

The .30-30 is a bottlenecked cartridge designed for the Browning-Winchester Mod. 1894 lever action just at the beginning of the smokeless age. The .30 carbine designed for personal defense during World War 2 is a gently tapered cartridge shorter in length by about 3/4 of an inch. Bullets for each are .308, but as noted earlier, the .30-30 can use bullets of heavier weight than the carbine loading.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

I've been playing around with a Savage bolt gun in 30 Carbine the last few weeks, amazing what an easy swap it was with a .223 bolt head.

Accuracy has been surprising too.

Why we're at it...how about a .30 Carbine AR upper. If for no other reason than there appears to be uppers coming out in just about anything anyways...LOL

A mighty fine idea! Wonder what sort of upper would most easily be modified? 7.62x39 due to the very similar bore diameter?

-J-

 

[fireball168]

Why we're at it...how about a .30 Carbine AR upper. If for no other reason than there appears to be uppers coming out in just about anything anyways...LOL

That upper came out a decade or more ago, and was dropped for slow sales after a supposed contract for a foreign agency was filled.

Google Olympic Arms PCR-30.

I just want one for the magazine adapter - which I didn't particularly care for how they did it, but have been too lazy to fab up myself.

I've been talking with these folks, but can't get them interested in exporting their magazine adapter.

Southern Gun Company, manufacture custom AR15 rifles, parts and accessories.

 

[Broom_jm]

The problem with the 30 Carbine is that it is an island unto itself and a quirky design, to begin with. It was an original design, so there is no parent case to make brass from, and there have been no wildcats formed from it that achieved any kind of popularity. So, from a manufacturer's perspective, it is a stand-alone product. It has really only been chambered in a handful of guns, with 99% of those being the original carbine used by our soldiers in WWII.

The cartridge design itself is somewhat of an anomaly. At first glance it appears to be a straight-walled case, but it does have some taper to it. Still, it headspaces on the case mouth, which makes the trim-to length very critical. Add in the high-pressure design of the cartridge and you've essentially got a small-caliber, hotly-loaded, pistol round, with finicky OAL requirements. As these things go, it's a PITA to reload for and I can easily see why it has lost popularity as the surplus ammo has dried up.

For just fun shooting, it's a good enough round, but it lacks the power for ethical hunting of anything more than small game. My father used one to take a deer one time, where it was legal, but that deer ran downhill about 200 yards before it died. That's why dad only used it "one time".

 

[RonC]

3030

I love my 3030 winchester model 94.. It's not a pre 64... But she is a 66

 

[Iroquois]

The 30 carbine is held in contempt by many who carried it. It does not have the range of any of the US battle rifles. It is not an effective brush gun as the bullet is too light to penetrate heavy brush. In fact the Chinese who faced it in North Korea were often save by their heavy quilted jackets. The military intended it as a replacement for the 1911 pistol, which had hard recoil, and was difficult for many recruits to use to any effect. The round was cheaper also with it's light bullet. These troops would have been better served with something else..maybe a 9mm or. 25 caliber carbine (high velocity) .JMHO...

 

[Broom_jm]

The problem with the 30 Carbine is that it is anemic as a rifle cartridge and sub-caliber as a pistol cartridge. It has a 21gr case capacity, whereas the "old and slow" 30/30 has a 44gr capacity. Even the 357 Magnum, with it's 25.5gr capacity is more powerful, thanks to less of that volume being gobbled up by the base of the bullet.

In smaller bore rifles, light bullet weights are more than compensated for by much higher velocity and the design/construction of the bullets, themselves. In larger-bore pistol cartridges, the slow velocity is not a problem because the mass and diameter of the bullet make for solid terminal performance. The 30 Carbine cartridge, with its light, 110 grain bullets, offers neither.

Some would try to employ it as a home defense round, which is fine with highly frangible bullets, but even there I think it is a poor compromise over more handy and/or powerful options.

The only redeeming quality of this round is that it was offered in a light firearm and has negligible recoil. It's an excellent choice for just plinking, but other than that, has little practical application. Back when surplus ammo could be had for a song, I really enjoyed going out and shooting several hundred rounds through mine, just for fun. Now that the only affordable way to shoot it is to load your own, and with the inherent performance limitations, my 30 Carbines don't get shot nearly as much as they used to be.

 

[WWalker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2tkgIdX6ak

 

[IndyBeerman]

The only redeeming quality of this round is that it was offered in a light firearm and has negligible recoil. It's an excellent choice for just plinking, but other than that, has little practical application. Back when surplus ammo could be had for a song, I really enjoyed going out and shooting several hundred rounds through mine, just for fun. Now that the only affordable way to shoot it is to load your own, and with the inherent performance limitations, my 30 Carbines don't get shot nearly as much as they used to be.

There you go again, there are plenty of dead German's, North Korean's and Japanese laying in graves in Europe and Asia that if they could talk, would disagree with you.