5.45X39mm VS. 5.56mm/.223

[Chefcook]

What is the difference and which is the better caliber?

 

[melensdad]

What is the difference and which is the better caliber?

One uses a bigger heavier slower bullet and one uses a smaller lighter faster bullet.

As to which is better the question comes to mind what do you want to shoot with the round? Each has its strengths and weaknesses. Want to shoot a deer (but not here in Indiana), go for the 7.62. Want to shoot a prairie dog or a coyote, go for the 5.56. Want to shoot a man, take your pick.

 

[Chefcook]

One uses a bigger heavier slower bullet and one uses a smaller lighter faster bullet.

As to which is better the question comes to mind what do you want to shoot with the round? Each has its strengths and weaknesses. Want to shoot a deer (but not here in Indiana), go for the 7.62. Want to shoot a prairie dog or a coyote, go for the 5.56. Want to shoot a man, take your pick.

I am not referring to 7.62... I am referring to the Russian version of .223 5.45mm...

 

[melensdad]

I am not referring to 7.62... I am referring to the Russian version of .223 5.45mm...

OOPS sorry, dumb me.

The Russian version uses a shorter case than the NATO version.

5.45x39mm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and
5.56x45mm NATO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Compare the bullet weights and velocities. The NATO round fires a heavier bullet at the same velocity.

 

[Chefcook]

OOPS sorry, dumb me.

The Russian version uses a shorter case than the NATO version.

5.45x39mm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and
5.56x45mm NATO - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/quote

I found this but was looking for opinions..
YouTube - M16 A1 (5.56mm) vs. AK-74 (5.45mm) [ Test Fire ]

 

[shooter521]

The differences are case length, bullet diameter and velocity... so basically, everything. The 5.56 is the longer, bigger and faster of the two.

As to which is "better" - what are you trying to accomplish? As far as wound ballistics, the military 7n6 ammo with the composite (lead/steel) core is roughly equivalent to the older M193 5.56 round, but is not as dependent on velocity or fragmentation to be effective. Accuracy-wise, 5.56 takes the cake, although the 5.45 is no slouch and is significantly better than 7.62x39.

I own, shoot and like both calibers, but the carbine I'd grab for "serious social purposes" is 5.56.

 

[techres]

Another thing to consider is this: 5.45 is not produced inside the US in significant numbers. Most of the surplus is corrosive (mildly) and the rest is still subject to import laws (and thus nightmare bans). The only advantage of 5.45 is the sudden supply of relatively cheap stuff available right now $125 for 1000 which is way less than 5.56.

HOWEVER -

Are you asking this because you are considering an AR or an AK in 5.45? A 74 is really a breeze to clean and so should eat up the 5.45 with no ill effect. I wonder how much cleaning extra is involved in one of the 5.45 uppers running corrosive ammo? And since cleaning is critical to AR function, are you introducing extra load on the AR's weak point?

Personally, I like my AR's in AR calibers and my AK's in AK calibers. My AR's are in 5.56 as originally designed. My personal AK's are in 7.62 but I have had and enjoyed 74's in 5.45.

 

[Serial Crusher]

I have an AR in 5.45 and so far haven't seen any problems. If you shoot any of the Russian animal ammo (wolf, tiger, bear) you should be safe. Without getting into the debate about stopping power or injury potential, I will say this: although slightly slower than 5.56, 5.45 generally has much longer, heavier bullets, which gives a better sectional density and energy retention. You actually can get a variety of 5.45, ranging from 55 to 70 grains. The heavier 70 grain Wolf Military Classic are closer to the Russian military version and have a small hollow space at the tip that is covered by the jacket. The light 55 grain Silver Bear are a great hollow point varmint round. When an FPS is given for the Silver Bear it has been reported as 3823 fps, which seems a little unbelievable. Either way with the possibility of an import ban, the worst that could happen is it rises to match the cost of .223/5.56. For now it's cheap, and if you're a volume shooter you can clean house. Many say they can't justify the cost of the upper (slightly more) to save on ammo, but I was already saving on 5.56 by the time I bought my second case of 1000 rounds. As far as printing patterns, you aren't going to find match ammo in 5.45, but the bulk buy ammo is by no means inaccurate. Another positive about getting an AR upper in 5.45 is that they have only been made by S&W and Alexander arms, so if you find one, it's quality hardware.

 

[fireball168]

I shot a good deal of 7n6 5.45 over the holidays at Kingsbury. The ammunition was quite consistent with a very low ES, velocity was 2983-2990.

Cleanup wasn't too much of an issue - a bit of warm water - then some Windex followed by one dose of Wipeout. I've checked on it over the past few weeks - no signs of corrosion.

Palmetto Armory is selling some uppers now supposedly made by Model 1. I talked with Shaw and Lothar Walther about sourcing some barrels, neither was interested in making any for me at SHOT.

Pac-Nor will make the barrels, but their rifling button is a CIP spec and this surplus generally has undersized projectiles. I'd like to have a couple of bolt gun barrels in 5.45.

 

[muncie21]

Any local IN shops have 5.45 at pre-Bama pricing? I can order online for around $260/case (2160) but the shipping kills..

 

[techres]

Any local IN shops have 5.45 at pre-Bama pricing? I can order online for around $260/case (2160) but the shipping kills..

Shipping from aimsurplus usually is good.

 

[muncie21]

Shipping from aimsurplus usually is good.

Yea, they are great to deal with. I just ordered a case of 5.56 from them. Unfortunately, they are out of 5.45 and also 7.62x39 at the moment.

They sold out of Bushmaster ARs in less than a day, the madness continues....

 

[Serial Crusher]

Ammunitiontogo.com has 5.45 in stock at reasonable prices, but I've never dealt with them.

 

[Serial Crusher]

Here's some good news for all the 5.45 upper owners. I just got an email from C-Products. Starting next week you'll be able to buy just the follower and spring from them, as opposed to an entire 5.45 magazine. Too bad I just placed an order for Magazines yesterday ...

 

[fireball168]

The front rib is in a different position on the 5.45 magazines due to the shoulder position change- unsure that a follower change is going to make much difference in a 5.56 magazine.

There's only about .015" difference in body diameter compared to 5.56.

 

[swmp9jrm]

I asked C-Products a while back whether the 5.56 and 5.45 cases are the same - answer was 'No'. I don't think that the springs and followers used in a 5.56 magazine are going to be much better than a complete 5.56 magazine.

 

[Serial Crusher]

I don't have a stanag magazine to test it on right now, but the 5.45 magazines won't take 5.56 very well. Just like fireball said, the rib is too far back on the 5.45 magazine for them. I've read that you can use 5.56 magazines for 5.45, only at a reduce capacity, I'll have to try it out this weekend. Either way it will be nice to stock up on replacement parts.

 

[Prometheus]

You cannot load more than 3 or 4 rounds into an AR-15 mag.

As to the new follower... I don't think it's going to be a good idea. Using 4-way anti tilt magazines the 5.45x39 rounds experience a number of problems including the fact the 5.45x39 mag has an internal indentation that prevents the rounds from bunching up as the rounds feed. Fireball notes the diameter at the fattest point is only .015" HOWEVER the case and neck makes the 5.45x39 need that extra internal rib.

As to the differences between the rounds? Minimal.

M16 fires either a 55 or 62 grain bullet. The AK74 uses a 56 grain bullet. Likewise, speeds are equally equivalent.

I like my 5.56 AR's as much as I like my 5.45 AR. I like my 47's as much as my 74's.

Buy what you like.

With ammo as cheap as it is for the 5.45x39 there is no reason not to buy several crates right now, rather than wait and be dependent upon purchasing more in the future.

Honestly you can buy 1 of 5.56 or 3,000 of 5.45. Laying in a supply of 6 or 9k rounds isn't that difficult.

 

[Serial Crusher]

Here's a little comparison, the shoulder of the 5.45 is much closer to the base, and it is slightly flared as opposed to the 5.56. This is a Wolf 70gr Military Classic 5.45 next to a Winchester .223

Here's the 70gr Wolf 5.45 next to a 50gr Hornady V-Max .223 In the V-Max defense, the base of the 5.45 has a cavity that is an eighth or a quarter of an inch deep.

 

[ChalupaCabras]

I have an AR in 5.45 and so far haven't seen any problems. If you shoot any of the Russian animal ammo (wolf, tiger, bear) you should be safe. Without getting into the debate about stopping power or injury potential, I will say this: although slightly slower than 5.56, 5.45 generally has much longer, heavier bullets, which gives a better sectional density and energy retention. You actually can get a variety of 5.45, ranging from 55 to 70 grains. The heavier 70 grain Wolf Military Classic are closer to the Russian military version and have a small hollow space at the tip that is covered by the jacket. The light 55 grain Silver Bear are a great hollow point varmint round. When an FPS is given for the Silver Bear it has been reported as 3823 fps, which seems a little unbelievable. Either way with the possibility of an import ban, the worst that could happen is it rises to match the cost of .223/5.56. For now it's cheap, and if you're a volume shooter you can clean house. Many say they can't justify the cost of the upper (slightly more) to save on ammo, but I was already saving on 5.56 by the time I bought my second case of 1000 rounds. As far as printing patterns, you aren't going to find match ammo in 5.45, but the bulk buy ammo is by no means inaccurate. Another positive about getting an AR upper in 5.45 is that they have only been made by S&W and Alexander arms, so if you find one, it's quality hardware.

I envy your 5.45 upper.