Tula .223 and ARs

[Beowulf]

I'm not trying to start another thread about how @#$% steel case ammo is. I shoot steel cased ammo extensively in my pistols and subgun, as well as in all my 5.56 rifles (AR, FS2000, Galil, and before I sold it, HK93). Other than my FNX 45 Tactical being really finicky for the first few hundreds rounds with TulAmmo .45, I generally don't have any problems... except for my AR.

And when I say my AR, that has described my experience on the last 3 ARs I have owned (a DPMS lower with a mystery upper, a DPMS lower with a PSA upper, and finally a Rock River Arms Tactical Operator, all supposedly with 5.56 chambers). I experience the typical problems with cases getting stuck in the chamber, usually after the ejector has ripped the rim off of it. The funny thing is that my FS2000, Galil, and HK93 (the last two miraculously functional guns built by Century) eat up steel cased ammo, including Tula with no real issues.

So, there seems to be something with ARs in particular that cause them to have issues.

Now back in the day, I had a pre-ban Colt AR-15 A2 HBAR Sporter. That thing would chew through any ammo, whether it was new brass, old milsurp (remember when that was the cheaper alternative?), or steel cased ammo of any variety like nobody's business. Like an idiot, I sold it, wanting to get an M4 style rifle, which is how I got into this particular quandry.

So, back to my point, I'm starting to wonder if it isn't steel cased ammo in particular I'm having problems with, but rather Tula steel cased ammo. I've realized that since I've been having these problems, I've almost entirely switched to Tula .223, as the other varieties of steel cased ammo have shot up in price (and more recently been impossible to find). Is it possible that maybe there is something particular to Tula's case dimensions that are causing this problem where Wolf or Bear don't? I've noticed some scrape marks on the sides of the Tula cases I've had to force out of the chamber of my AR, which is what got me to thinking about this.

Anyone done any side by side comparisons with other steel cased ammo and noticed anything?

In the meantime, I bit the bullet and bought a 1000 rounds of brass cased ammo (found it just under $400, which is about as good as I've seen it lately) which I'll just reserve for my AR, leaving the several thousand rounds of Tula I have stocked up for my other guns and (hopefully) for my 5.56 SABRE upper for my MAC 10. But if the ammo craziness ever ends, it would be good to know that I could just focus in on some particular brands of steel that can feed all my guns, instead of having to buy different stock of the same caliber just to keep everything happy (or, I suppose, the other alternative is to dump the AR platform entirely, which I might do if I could find an FN SCAR 16s for a reasonable price and it isn't a picky eater).

 

[gunman41mag]

i'll say the problem with tula is their gunpowder isn't timed for ar-15

 

[gunbunnies]

Well.... I've got a 10.5 original Bushmaster A2 upper on a pistol lower and a M4-gery carbine using a DSArms 1/7 fully chromed barrel with a Chromed DPMS BCG, standard gas system that eat Tula and everything else I've got my hands on for breakfast... The only steel I've had some issues with was the silver bear stuff and some Wolf that was resuscitated from a flood... but these issues were with primers not going off... not with functioning.

 

[indykid]

I have had nothing but trouble with my first and last case of Tula .223 not only in an M-4gery but in my SAR-3 and Norinco 84S-1. In all three rifles, the polymer coated ammo sticks in the chamber after firing around 30 rounds. Some of the case that do get ejected but only a short distance can be caught without burning your hand. In fact they are cold. The rounds that do eject normally are too hot to hold, as they should be.

I bring a 20 inch cleaning rod with me when I shoot the Tula, expecting to have to knock out empties that get glued into the chamber.

I have never had problems with the lacquer coated ammo in either style rifle, but the polymer coated Tula makes me not want to try any more of the stuff.

 

[Menace67]

All 3 of my AR's eat Tula and wolf with no problems at all. Never had a stuck case so far.

 

[Beowulf]

Well, I did a little testing of my hypothesis. I had a brick of WPA .223. So I took my AR and FS2000 out to the range and loaded up all the mags with that.

First, the AR ran perfectly with the WPA. It started raining, so we were only able to put about 120 rounds through it. Now, I had scrubbed the chamber and oiled the bolt prior to the trip, so I'm not really convinced this proves anything. My plan is to shoot WPA through it the next trip as well and hopefully dump another 120 to 150 rounds through it (expensive test, right?).

On the flip side, my FS2000 was living in jam city. We had failures eject and chamber. Nothing really catastrophic, in that we could clear any jam pretty easily, but it was bad enough that we put it away. So, again, not conclusive, but I have a feeling the FS2000 really hates WPA, but is okay with Tula.

 

[ckcollins2003]

Never had a problem with Tula out of my Superior upper AR. Maybe it's not even so much the make but maybe the gas system? With every firearm, if it will run it, use it. If not, abuse it until it will.

 

[xM3RC1L3SS1x]

I usually have a problem out of every 75-100 rounds

 

[ModernS30]

Interestingly enough I have read about many problems. I've got 120 rounds of TulAmmo .223 through my AR. LW-15 Polymer complete lower and a PSA premium 16" upper. No misfires, no FTE or FTF. Not to say I won't have any, I've only 60 rounds of brass through it, which was PMC 55 grain 5.56. I have cleaned it very well each time I shot it though. Try cleaning your chamber with a 410 brush, maybe you have some excess carbon buildup? Every gun will like different ammo though. My recently acquired M&P9C won't even hardly feed Tula. It doesn't even make it out of the magazine sometimes. A quick tap and it will feed, but still, no FTE.

 

[kb66]

Here's a link to an extremely good comparison of Tula, Wolf, Brown Bear and Federal ammo. They used 4 identical Bushmasters and 10,000 rounds of each ammo, very interesting reading. - Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo - An Epic Torture Test

 

[ckcollins2003]

Here's a link to an extremely good comparison of Tula, Wolf, Brown Bear and Federal ammo. They used 4 identical Bushmasters and 10,000 rounds of each ammo, very interesting reading. - Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo - An Epic Torture Test

Did you ever read that before they edited it? It was an even better read. At the end they took an H&K 416 and fired every single round of Tula left over without a hiccup. Why they edited it out is for you to decide...