.35 Remington Short (1.80")

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  • cedarthicket

    Marksman
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    Nov 3, 2012
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    Yesterday afternoon I could not resist the chance to again take my recently purchased JM Marlin 336 CS in .35 Remington to the local range. The weather was great – about 33 degrees, practically no wind, and sunny. The load was 200 gr Hornady FTX, 33 gr IMR 3031, Win primer, and trimmed Remington brass. Cartridge overall length was 2.51 inches for all rounds. The scope was set on 9 power.

    The group on the left target was with full length brass (trimmed to 1.910 inches) FL resized. Bullets were moderately crimped in cannelures. Distance was 50 yards. The 5-shot group of 0.55 inches was very good. I then lowered the elevation 8 clicks, or 2 minutes of angle.

    The 2 groups on the right target were with brass trimmed to about 1.797 inches. It had been fired in my rifle before, so I only neck sized it. I used a Lee .38 Super TC sizing die and a Lyman .357 Mag TC sizing die to be sure the shortened necks had a good grip on the bullet. The bullets were not crimped, but otherwise the load was identical to that used on the left target. A fine 50-yard group of 0.40 inches for 4 shots was obtained. (I twitched a little on the fifth shot flyer to make a 5-shot group of 0.90 inches, which was still not too bad.)

    So, then I put the same target at 100 yards and fired the next group without changing sight settings -- and without twitching. The result was an amazing 5-shot group of about 0.50 inches at 100 yards!!! (I think it may actually be slightly less than 0.50 inches, but who cares about a few thousandths?)

    It’s looking more and more like the rifle is a keeper. I plan to take it deer hunting this fall, but only when the weather conditions are fair. Did I mention the rifle is in like new condition? And, it has the most beautiful tiger-striped walnut butt stock (both sides) I have seen on a standard Marlin 336.

    35Rem02-12-14003_zps95bd7f50.jpg
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    Kart29

    Sharpshooter
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    Jun 10, 2011
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    I call baloney. You can't do that with an old rainbow trajectory lever-gun. Their just old time brush busters, that's all their good for. HOAX!


    By the way, you wanna sell that rifle?
     

    cedarthicket

    Marksman
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    Nov 3, 2012
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    :) Yep, just an old-fashioned, rainbow-trajectory, brush-busting, lever rifle! But, d--- it can sure shoot those bullets if I do my part! When I get the next opportunity I will chronograph the load used on the right target with the Indiana deer-legal case length. I will add the information to this thread.

    I don't plan on selling the rifle anytime soon. I want to get at least one deer with it -- maybe several. But, thanks for asking.
     

    Broom_jm

    Master
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    Dec 10, 2009
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    That's pretty impressive shooting out of a lever-gun, and illustrates the value of handloading quality projectiles!

    The great thing is it doesn't really matter what the velocity is...if you can shoot anything like that in the field, you'll be putting deer down in a hurry. :thumbsup:

    I forgot to add that this is a classic illustration of why testing at 50 yards doesn't always tell you the full story. If you had doubled your 50 yard group with the trimmed cases, w/o testing at 100 yards, you would have guessed your gun was shooting 1.8" groups. By actually shooting at 100, your target is showing that a load combination doesn't always give away its full potential at 50 yards.
     
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    Tobryan

    Marksman
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    Jan 6, 2013
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    Lafayette
    Great groups! I ordered an E.R. Shaw barrel for a Savage action in .35 Rem a couple moths ago. I'm pumped. I'm very interested in your chrony numbers.
     

    cedarthicket

    Marksman
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    Nov 3, 2012
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    Today, before the snow arrived, I decided to go to the range and try out some loads containing Reloder 7 powder. With a temperature of 19 degrees and some wind blowing it was not very comfortable, but what can I expect in mid-February? The cases were neck sized as before and loaded with Hornady 200 gr FTX bullets to 2.51 inches cartridge overall length. Powder charges of 30, 31, and 32 grains were weighed. I had 3 of each load, and the shots were fired at a target at 50 yards. This time I brought my chronograph. Results are as follows:

    30 gr Rel 7…..Ave Vel = 1934 ft/sec…..Group = 0.70 inches
    31 gr Rel 7…..Ave Vel = 1960 ft/sec…..Group = 0.60 inches
    32 gr Rel 7…..Ave Vel = 2055 ft/sec…..Group = 0.50 inches

    So, it appears that the groups I shot 2 days ago were not flukes. The rifle really does “like” that particular bullet with both IMR 3031 and Reloder 7. The velocity I got with 32 grains Rel 7 is respectable, and very close to factory loads. A recent Winchester catalog shows 2020 ft/sec for their 200 grain bullet and Remington shows 2080 ft/sec for their 200 grain bullet. An old Lyman reloading manual (45 th Ed., 1970) shows a MAXIMUM load of 33 grains of Reloder 7 for 2188 ft/sec. with a Remington jacketed bullet in a Marlin 20-inch barrel. The 2005 edition of the Alliant Reloaders’ Guide shows a load of 31 grains Rel 7 pushing a Remington bullet at 2115 ft/sec in a 24-inch barrel. Alliant’s chamber pressure is shown as 30,700 CUP (copper units of pressure).
     

    Broom_jm

    Master
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    Dec 10, 2009
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    I'm not sure where you are located, but have you tried the LVR powder in this combination? Supposedly you can get that bullet up to around 2200fps with it, and still have safe pressures.

    Regardless, those are very good results and, again, illustrate how much can be gained by handloading.

    According to the PointBlank ballistics program, if you sight that bullet in 3" high at 100 yards it will be only 3" low at 200 yards. At that range it will still have plenty of velocity and energy to deliver solid terminal performance. With the accuracy you're getting, 200 yards will be no problem and to my way of thinking that makes for a VERY good Indiana-legal deer cartridge. In most places where you hunt and actually SEE whitetails in Indiana, 200 yards is a very long shot, indeed! :thumbsup:
     

    antiquejd

    Plinker
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    Jan 2, 2014
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    Columbia City
    I gave $525 for mine off gun broker and am working on getting the Lyman peep sight to match. It was built in '52 with ballard rifling. I also purchased one for my son, same year, for $540. My buddy purchased one last weekend at the gun show for $420. All 3 were .35 Remington. I also bought 1000 cases to reload as we are going to practice a fair amount before season this fall. I am glad to see the results you obtained with your loads. I also was going to use IMR 3031. Thanks for the post.
     

    cedarthicket

    Marksman
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    Nov 3, 2012
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    This morning I went to the range and chronographed another load. The weather was lousy. Temperature was around 25 degrees and a 10 mph variable wind was blowing. The cases were neck sized as before and loaded with Hornady 200 gr FTX bullets to 2.51 inches cartridge overall length. Powder charges of 33 and 34 grains of IMR 3031 were weighed. Five of each load were fired at a target at 50 yards. Chronograph results are as follows:

    33 gr IMR 3031…..Ave Vel = 2010 ft/sec…..Group = 0.85 inches
    34 gr IMR 3031…..Ave Vel = 2067 ft/sec…..Group = 0.74 inches

    The rifle continues to like the Hornady 200 gr FTX bullet, although my holding consistency left a little to be desired. The 5-shot groups were not quite as good as previous efforts. I am going to regard the 34 gr IMR 3031 charge as near maximum with this bullet. The powder charge almost fills the case up to the base of the seated bullet. The velocity falls between what recent Winchester and Remington catalogs shows for their bullets. Winchester shows 2020 ft/sec for their 200 grain bullet and Remington shows 2080 ft/sec for their 200 grain bullet.

    An old Lyman reloading manual (45th Ed., 1970) shows a MAXIMUM load of 37 grains of IMR 3031 (compressed powder charge) for 2079 ft/sec. with a Remington jacketed bullet in a Marlin 20-inch barrel. I was wondering if there could be a typo in the data. However, the 1986 edition of Dupont’s Handloader’s Guide shows a charge of 37.5 gr IMR 3031 gives a velocity of 2110 ft/sec with a 200 gr Hornady RN bullet from a 23-inch barrel. Dupont’s chamber pressure is shown as 34,700 CUP (copper units of pressure). The current Hodgdon web site shows the same data as Dupont.

    Because the overall length of the Hornady 200 gr RN bullet is noticeably shorter than the 200 gr FTX bullet, there is more powder room available for the RN bullet when both bullets are seated to give the same overall cartridge length. This could account for some of the differences in maximum powder charges and velocities published versus what I found with the 200 gr Hornady FTX.

    So, I may be able to safely squeeze in an additional one-half grain of powder with the IMR 3031 and FTX bullet and still be OK. But, I do not plan to exceed that.
     

    Sam7157

    Plinker
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    Jan 21, 2014
    57
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    Waynetown
    Nice shooting. My dad has one and we have got it out a couple times. Been saving the brass. Having a hard time finding bullets for reloading.
     

    cedarthicket

    Marksman
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    Nov 3, 2012
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    This afternoon I went to the range and chronographed another load. The weather was nice. Temperature was around 82 degrees and a roughly 5-10 mph variable wind was blowing. The .35 Remington Short cases were neck sized and loaded with Speer 220 gr FN bullets to 2.51 inches cartridge overall length. Remington 9 1/2 primers were used. Powder charges of 36 grains of IMR 4895 were weighed. Five warm up shots were taken at 50 yards and the target was moved out to 100 yards. Chronograph and group results were as follows:

    36 gr IMR 4895…..Ave Vel = 1892 ft/sec…..Group = 1.30 inches (100 yards)

    Here is a pic of the target:



    The old Speer Reloading Manual #9 shows a MAXIMUM load of 37 grains of IMR 4895 powder with the Speer 220 gr FN bullet. So, my load of 36 grains was close to the maximum per Speer. It looks like 37 grains of IMR 4895 may fit in the case, but it would result in a nearly 100 percent loading density situation. I did not have any more Speer 220 gr bullets so I did not try it. The Speer Manual #9 shows 36 grains gives 1961 ft/sec and 37 grains gives 2012 ft/sec, both from a Marlin 336 rifle with 20-inch barrel.

    Following is a pic of a 3-shot group I later shot at 100 yards using Remington factory loads (200 gr Core-Lokt RN Soft Point bullets). Average velocity for the 3 shots was 2027 ft/sec. The very nice group measured 0.75 inches and was pretty close to dead center on the target. Same sight settings and hold as with the 220 gr Speer FN bullets.

     

    Hookeye

    Grandmaster
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    Dec 19, 2011
    15,039
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    armpit of the midwest
    Your statement sounds like you think there's a problem with 100% load density.
    Most of my loads are (rifle or handgun) :)

    Yeah you get less rounds per #, but the accuracy gains I think make up for it.
     

    cedarthicket

    Marksman
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    4   0   0
    Nov 3, 2012
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    Nope, I do not have a problem with up to 100% loading density, as long as pressures are safe. I did not have more of the 220 gr bullets or I would have tried a little more powder with them.
     
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