Any reason this wouldn't work?

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  • ctbreitwieser

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    Jun 14, 2011
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    So I've been contemplating reaming my .357 handi rifle to .358 Hoosier. While looking at the two, I got an idea. And made this...


    It's a .358 Hoosier case loaded with a Hornady 158gr .357 XTP. I seated it so the base of the bullet is the same depth as my 180gr SSPS.

    Now I am a novice reloader, but in my head. This would work just fine, and allow me to load a hotter charge and really make that bullet zing through the air.

    Some questions I have are, if this will work...

    Can I seat the bullet deeper and still be safe?

    Can I bump up the powder charge and stay safe?

    Can I do both simultaneously?

    What type of accuracy might be expected from a 1:14 twist barrel?
     

    OutdoorDad

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    So first... I'm by no means claiming status as an expert reloader. If I continue at my present pace, my lifetime count will be less than some make in a weekend on a progressive.

    But I am deliberate. And careful. And I've done whacky things with brass and bullets when I knew there was never going to be any powder or primer involved. So no criticism on the "mock up".

    I'm unable to find any load data that is for any bullet below 180 grain. Maybe it exists, but I can't find it.

    This is a wildcat. Which means that VERY experienced people with TONS of experience have played around with it. And published the load data that they, as experts, felt was worth discussing.

    Can I seat the bullet deeper and still be safe?
    Nope. Because you don't know what will happen and neither do I. And the wildcat developers didn't consider the possibility. So either there is no juice at the end of that squeeze, or its unsafe.

    Can I bump up the powder charge and still be safe?
    Nope. The published load data is at the MAX. (at least what I'm finding). So if more were better, we'd already see that load data.

    Can I do both simultaneously?
    The answer to this is always "no". People who do this have nicknames like "lefty", "one-eye", or "dearly departed". Never move two variables.

    Accuracy?
    Wrong size bullet, wrong shape, big jump to rifling, wrong weight, sub optimal powder charge behind it, unknown velocity... the "bad" just adds up to too much with no "good". I can't see how it could possibly improve on an offering that isn't designed for "reach out and touch" accuracy from the start. So all the changes would degrade rather than enhance. And I suspect that the degradation would be swift, and additive with every change.



    But your mock up looks bad ass. And I'd hate to be shot with it. Or even have it thrown at me really hard, for that matter.
     

    ctbreitwieser

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    Thank you for explaining. And I understand your concerns.

    Now I'm going to explain why I think it would work. (Emphasis on "think")

    First, I'm assuming there's no data for it because it hasn't been thought of, and just because there is no data doesn't mean it won't work. It is afterall a wildcat with extremely limited data already.

    Now, the overall length of my mock up places the base of the bullet in the exact spot as the base on my 180gr SSP bullets, which have been excellent for me. This means the internal case volume is the same as a published, working load. Which means there shouldn't be any pressure issues.

    Also you mentioned a big jump to the rifling. Here is a pic I took of my mock next to my working load from published data.



    You can see the ojive is at the same spot on both bullets. If anything, it may be a little farther out on the mock up. My Hoosier is currently at my mom and dad's house, but once I get it back here I'm going to chamber the mock up to ensure its not touching the rifling. If it is, I'll seat a little deeper. (And reduce powder charge to make up for less internal volume, theoretically)

    And with the bullet weight being only 22gr less than my current bullet, there should be no reason at all for a pressure spike.

    The only real concern I could see is that the bullet is 0.001" undersized. But shooting bullets through barrels with +/- 0.001" differences is done all time in many different calibers. And with it being on the small side, it should be safer than trying to shoot a 0.359" sized bullet which would be a whole other story.

    Anyways, by no means am i arguing with you, and please don't take this as me disregarding you. Just pointing as to why I think it could work.

    And thank you for the discussion. I enjoy conversations that get my brain thinking.
     

    Sling10mm

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    There are risks inherent in what you are doing, but your approach seems reasonable, and isn't unheard of. My Lyman reloading manual has a 35 Whelen load using a Hornady 357 caliber 158 gr XTP bullet. Just be safe in developing your loads and let us know how it works out. Load development isn't worth an eye, some fingers, or more… :):
     

    ckcollins2003

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    I'm in no ways an expert reloader, so I could be completely in the wrong saying this, but meh, why not...

    With it being seated the way it is, which is with the ogive at the same spot as the heavier bullet, and using a lighter bullet... I wouldn't be at all concerned about over pressure. As always, start low on the powder charge and work your way up... but using a lighter and shorter bullet, you should be able to go a little more on the powder charge if it's really needed. Accuracy wise, I don't know how well it's going to compare... at short distances you probably won't see much difference, but at 100 meters, I wouldn't expect it to be that great.
     

    OutdoorDad

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    If you own a comparator and a chronograph, maybe.

    My last bit of input on the topic.
    Don't "eyeball" the ogive. Measure it.
    Not my fingers at risk, but from the photo, I don't think its where you think it is.
    The round you're looking at doesn't require additional "zing".

    Me. Nope.
     

    jstory

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    Been reloading for a short time, no expert either. I will only load published data and leave the "wildcats" to those that want to live on the edge...good luck and stay safe, after all, this is just for fun...
     

    Tactically Fat

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    Will the .357 bullet be able to handle the velocity?

    Note - I'm not a reloader. But I do know that I've read where when you start pushing handgun bullets at rifle velocities that they tend to have...issues. Not sure if that's just JHP/HP projectiles vs. FMJ/Monolithic or not.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Will the .357 bullet be able to handle the velocity?

    Note - I'm not a reloader. But I do know that I've read where when you start pushing handgun bullets at rifle velocities that they tend to have...issues. Not sure if that's just JHP/HP projectiles vs. FMJ/Monolithic or not.

    Mostly HP. Pushing it too fast causes it to open too fast, reducing penetration. Pushing it way too fast causes fragmentation, which dramatically reduces penetration. FMJ can have issues with the jacket separating.
     

    jstory

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    I'm using .452 Hornady XTP in my inline muzzleloaders. I'm sure I am pushing them faster than the 1200 fps max. I have only found one in a deer that I have killed, all the rest have been total pass thru.
     

    Tactically Fat

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    I'm using .452 Hornady XTP in my inline muzzleloaders. I'm sure I am pushing them faster than the 1200 fps max. I have only found one in a deer that I have killed, all the rest have been total pass thru.

    But isn't that a rifle bullet made for rifle velocities?
     

    Sniper 79

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    I would bring this up with some experienced 358 Hoosier or other wild cat dudes to get their opinion.

    Only one way to try her out and that is drop the hammer on one. Put the rifle in a rest and stand back using a string to pull her off. Inspect brass and gun adjust powder as need be and shoot away or throw away.

    Let us know how it goes. Neat idea.
     

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