300 Blackout Ammunition for Home Defense

[88E30M50]

I'm in the process of building an AR pistol in 300 Blackout for home defense use. It will eventually be SBR'd and suppressed once the trust is set up and funds accumulate a bit. Until it's suppressed, what ammo would you guys run for home defense? The basic choices are a heavier subsonic bullet that gives handgun levels of muzzle energy or a lighter supersonic load that provides low end rifle levels of muzzle energy. I've run the pistol with both and it cycles both well without a suppressor, so I don't think reliability will play a role.

From what I gather, the advantage of the subsonic round for home defense is that it's going to cause less hearing damage than the supersonic loads, have less muzzle flash and be less likely to over penetrate. The advantage to the lighter, supersonic rounds is over double the muzzle energy when compared to the heavier bullet. Right now, I'm thinking that the heavier round makes more sense in a home defense role, but am I missing something in my logic?

What say the INGO brain trust?

 

[sht4brnz]

Lehigh Defense has some good expanding projectiles designed for subsonic speeds. The majority of all of the other heavy projectiles available are designed for super sonic with high ballistic coefficients and will expand very little if at all at sub sonic speeds.

 

[Sniper 79]

What ever is cheap and on sale rolled by myself. That is me though.

I did see a video on YouTube on the Lehigh offerings. They may have something that will fit your needs. Everyone is different.

 

[SSGSAD]

JMHO, I have NO experience with this round ..... HEAVY and SLOW .....

 

[M67]

I have some subsonic RIP loads for the 300, never have tried them though but I have them loaded and ready to go on my suppressed 8.5" 300

G2 Research » TRIDENT

Hornady makes some 208gr TAPs as well.

http://www.hoosierarmory.com/p-64551-hrndy-tap-fpd-300blk-208gr-amax-20.aspx

Personally, I'd go subsonic, heavy and slow, like the round was meant to be. Even if you don't have a can, at least a subsonic load fired indoors won't be as deafening as a supersonic. I'd also use a flaming pig, flash can, or PWS CQB to throw the noise down range too if no can was pressent

 

[88E30M50]

Thanks for the input guys. I really need to get the trust started and get a can on that gun, but until then, I think I'll stick with heavy and slow for HD.

 

[Woobie]

The sub loads are nice, but they are neutered compared to the supers. Why would you pick up a .45 ACP when you have an AK47 lying next to it? That is the choice you making. Furthermore, it has been shown time and again that faster, lighter bullets break up more quickly and actually penetrate less. Don't take my word on it, there is a whole host of research out there on this. So unless you are making the choice based purely on noise, the supers win hands down. One of the best projectiles out there seems to be the 110 gn Barnes TTSX "black tips."

 

[romad7]

Suppressed or unsuppressed, it's a rifle and if you're shooting heavy slow bullets then you're probably better off with a 45 or 10mm pistol and avoid the cost and hassle of a 300 BLK SBR.

Unsuppressed subs are still loud so might as well go full power. Suppressed supers aren't too loud and you get full expansion with defensive rounds (Lehigh max expansion rounds are nice but not worth the cost).

Unless you are clearing rooms and don't want to wake the bad guys next door, subsonic rounds aren't that great for putting down people.

The main appeal of 300 BLK for me is short barrel performance. My 300 BLK SBR is a little shorter than my 16" 5.56 with a suppressor. At that length it doesn't lose much performance at all, getting full benefit from the supersonic defense ammo.

Here's what I use, Barnes VOR-TX Ammo 300 AAC Blackout 110 Grain Tipped TAC-TX Bullet

 

[throttletony]

The sub loads are nice, but they are neutered compared to the supers. Why would you pick up a .45 ACP when you have an AK47 lying next to it? That is the choice you making. Furthermore, it has been shown time and again that faster, lighter bullets break up more quickly and actually penetrate less. Don't take my word on it, there is a whole host of research out there on this. So unless you are making the choice based purely on noise, the supers win hands down. One of the best projectiles out there seems to be the 110 gn Barnes TTSX "black tips."

Suppressed or unsuppressed, it's a rifle and if you're shooting heavy slow bullets then you're probably better off with a 45 or 10mm pistol and avoid the cost and hassle of a 300 BLK SBR.

Unsuppressed subs are still loud so might as well go full power. Suppressed supers aren't too loud and you get full expansion with defensive rounds (Lehigh max expansion rounds are nice but not worth the cost).

Unless you are clearing rooms and don't want to wake the bad guys next door, subsonic rounds aren't that great for putting down people.

The main appeal of 300 BLK for me is short barrel performance. My 300 BLK SBR is a little shorter than my 16" 5.56 with a suppressor. At that length it doesn't lose much performance at all, getting full benefit from the supersonic defense ammo.

Here's what I use, Barnes VOR-TX Ammo 300 AAC Blackout 110 Grain Tipped TAC-TX Bullet

Thank you! This is exactly what I was thinking as I read the first couple posts...
Go SUPERSONIC and get the right self defense (fragmenting/expanding) round.
Ingo's own Mac (military arms channel) and Iraqveteran8888 have a couple GREAT videos on youtube -- a vid for SD rounds and a vid for hunting rounds.
Most of the sub rounds penetrante more than folks might expect.
Since it's a rifle, why not get rifle ballistics out of it?

 

[Mgderf]

If I lived outside of a city/town, and my closest neighbors were not within ear-shot, then I might consider a super-sonic rifle cartridge for home defense.
However, since the vast majority of super-sonic rifle projectiles are not of a frangible design, I would be extremely concerned about over-penetration in almost every setting.
The average house construction today, and for the past 50 years or more, consists of drywall interior and vinyl exterior. Even the wood siding is made of cedar and is very soft.

I would be willing to bet that a commercial .223 offering could penetrate my house, a 3 bedroom National Homes, from end to end if it didn't hit a stud, or water heater, or person...
I could easily imagine me shooting a bad guy in my hall with a .223, and then try to explain how my neighbor's daughter was also shot in her bedroom.

Heavy and slowed has killed dead for centuries. In a home self defense scenario you can't be more than a handful of feet, not yards, from an intruder.
YMMV. I don't have acres to defend. I could, but inside the confines of my property, a .357mag, or .44mag, or .45Colt... would all make someone just as dead.

 

[throttletony]

If I lived outside of a city/town, and my closest neighbors were not within ear-shot, then I might consider a super-sonic rifle cartridge for home defense.
However, since the vast majority of super-sonic rifle projectiles are not of a frangible design, I would be extremely concerned about over-penetration in almost every setting.
The average house construction today, and for the past 50 years or more, consists of drywall interior and vinyl exterior. Even the wood siding is made of cedar and is very soft.

I would be willing to bet that a commercial .223 offering could penetrate my house, a 3 bedroom National Homes, from end to end if it didn't hit a stud, or water heater, or person...
I could easily imagine me shooting a bad guy in my hall with a .223, and then try to explain how my neighbor's daughter was also shot in her bedroom.

Heavy and slowed has killed dead for centuries. In a home self defense scenario you can't be more than a handful of feet, not yards, from an intruder.
YMMV. I don't have acres to defend. I could, but inside the confines of my property, a .357mag, or .44mag, or .45Colt... would all make someone just as dead.

I won't disagree with what you said here.
I will urge you to check the articles/videos on penetration. Nobody is suggesting that u use a solid/fmj projectile.
Guns and ammo had a couple great articles on interior wall penetration with rifle, pistol, and shotgun rounds (with multiple types of bullet construction). There are also some good youtube vids on the subject.

From all the info, you want high speed + fragmenting/expanding. ... these seem to be the safest indoors.
The 300blk 110 gr tac-tx bt barnes are a great option

 

[Woobie]

Heavy and slow will absolutely kill. But on thin skinned targets fast wins. 2200-2300 fps seems to be the cut off, roughly, for the greater performance achieved in rifle rounds. And that .223 will almost certainly not penetrate as deeply in a typical modern home than a pistol round or buckshot. Push that 110 grainer up to 2400 fps and you've got a winning combo. Supress it and you will still have a comparatively quiet round next to a handgun or shotgun.

 

[gmcman355]

The pistol rounds also have the benefit of larger holes. Even fully expanded a 300 round isn't much larger than a .45 starts out as. Might as well use the high speed fragmenting round and get the full potential

 

[88E30M50]

Lots of good info here. Thanks guys! I've thought about whether or not I might just as well stay with my nightstand duty 1911 in .45 for HD, backed up by the DD M4A1 that's leaning against the wall next to the nightstand. but I think that even with subsonic speeds, a 30 magazine of 300 BO, with the 1911 in a holster as a BUG, would make an effective package. Once the rifle is suppressed, it will be even better, but until then it should work. The AR I currently use for HD is a DD with a 14.5 barrel and pinned flash hider. It's incredibly loud too. Permanent hearing damage loud if shot without hearing protection in a closed room. Would an unsuppressed 300BO subsonic round be loud too? Of course, but no where near the loudness of the AR.

For comparison, a subsonic 300BO 220g load in an 8.5" barrelled AR pistol will produce around 4,000 psi muzzle pressure. Muzzle pressure is a good indication of the expected loudness of a round of ammo. A standard pressure .45 is around 3,000 psi muzzle pressure. Mild 10mm is around 6,500 psi (1250 fps) and a stout .40 S&W in a Glock 27 is about 7,000 psi. Shorter barrels have higher muzzle pressures due to the chamber pressures decreasing with bullet travel. Now, take a look at the .223 round out of the 14.5" AR and it's pushing over 14,000 psi. This is with ammo that should be coming in around 2,700 fps muzzle velocity. I keep commercial 5.56 in my AR and that's rated north of 3000 fps.

My goal if ever faced with a nightime intruder or home invasion is to come away unscathed. That not only includes not getting shot, but also not incurring permanent hearing loss for me and anyone in the room with me, to as great an extent as possible. From what I've been able to calculate, the muzzle energy of the 220g subsonic ammo is between that of the 9mm and .45. But, there's 30 rounds on tap vs. 9 in my .45. I am concerned about over travel too. I did see the videos that MAC did with IV8888 and that's what started me thinking about using 300 BO for HD. In MAC's hunting video, he discusses taking a hog with subsonic, suppressed 300 BO, which tells me that the round is not awful at penetration.

I did just pick up a couple of boxes of the Hornady AMax 208g rounds to see how they function in the gun. There's some other stuff out there that gets good reports, but it's ungodly expensive. This has been a fun project so far and is getting even more interesting in ammo choices.

 

[ryknoll3]

If the results on two-legged critters are anything like the results on 4-legged critters (whitetail), the Barnes 110 gr Tac-TX would be a go-to round.

 

[dudley0]

Any new data on rounds that would be suitable for HD in this caliber?

 

[daddyusmaximus]

I rebarreled my SBR to .300 Blackout for HD use. It hits harder than the 5.56 in a short barrel.

I do want to protect my hearing, and will get a suppressor... one day. However, I will not risk using a sub-sonic round for defense that may not stop a bad guy quick enough. I use the Vor-tx 110 grain black tip. It is the gold standard.

Subs are great, and I will get some of those too, for times when being quiet is the objective, but for protecting my family, stopping the bad guy is the objective.