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  1. #21
    Veteran and Gun Nut Wolfhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmmoManAaron ***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)ed5511&p=6541153#post6541153" rel="nofollow">View Post
    FYI - That's some of the best .32-40 ammo ever made, loaded on the hot side for people who were still using the .32-40 for hunting into the 1970s. A cool old caliber, the Europeans even chambered it in a few drillings, cape guns, and single shot stalking rifles; the case shape is reminiscent of the Sauer family of cartridges that originated at about the same time (late 1800s).
    Thanks for the info Aaron. I had no idea the Imperial was good stuff. This thread is already very interesting and I have a feeling we are just scratching the surface. I have several ammo cans full of surplus ammo I still need to go through. In the past I viewed surplus ammo as something to blast at the range. It is different to look at it as a collector.
    Once the shooting starts, a plan is just a guess in a party dress. -Michael Yon

  2. #22
    Veteran and Gun Nut Wolfhound's Avatar
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    I have some 303 Enfield to offer up. Willing to trade for anything unusual. On the left is a Pakistani FMJ head stamp POF (Pakistan Ordinance Factory) 1966. Center is an incendiary round I believe English 1944 and right is an AP round also English 1944. If I am wrong on any of these feel free to correct me.

    Once the shooting starts, a plan is just a guess in a party dress. -Michael Yon

  3. #23
    Grandmaster Leadeye's Avatar
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    I use a cast RCBS 170 grain gas check on top of 26 grains of 3031. Old gun shoots just fine.
    Where's the Kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth shattering Kaboom.

    Marvin the Martian

  4. #24
    Expert AmmoManAaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfhound ***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)ed5511&p=6541337#post6541337" rel="nofollow">View Post
    I have some 303 Enfield to offer up. Willing to trade for anything unusual. On the left is a Pakistani FMJ head stamp POF (Pakistan Ordinance Factory) 1966. Center is an incendiary round I believe English 1944 and right is an AP round also English 1944. If I am wrong on any of these feel free to correct me.

    Round on the left is Pakistani ball, Mark 7 ball to be exact and is loaded with an interesting propellant called cordite.

    Center is British made incendiary, made by Kynoch (main plant - Witton, Birmingham, UK) in 1944, B (headstamp code for incendiary) Mark 7 variant, "z" denotes it is loaded with nitrocellulose propellant. Note that on the specialty loadings the British used a headstamp code, primer annulus color, and only sometimes a tip color. For example, they did NOT use a tip color on ANY of the 8mm Mauser specialty loadings made for their BESA tank machineguns and these are only identified by headstamp code and primer annulus color.

    Right is British made tracer, NOT armor piercing. Someone has painted the tip a different color. Headstamp indicates it was made by Kynoch at their Plant #4 (Yeading, Hayes, Middlesex, UK) in 1944. "G" indicates tracer, II indicates the Mark 2 variant. Red primer annulus also indicates tracer. This particular Mark of tracer should not have had a tip color at all. Certain Marks of tracer used a white tip or gray tip while others used no tip color at all. FYI - for this to be AP it would need a W headstamp code followed by a Mark #, green primer annulus, and NO tip color.

    As you can see just from your examples, the British are kinda weird and inconsistent about how they identify their ammo. For most countries and loadings the primer annulus color has no meaning at all and they use something much more obvious (like tip colors or bands) to make the special loadings easily identified.

    Also, the way they identify addresses is screwy too, LOL!

    Here is a handy chart for the more common UK military .303 British loadings:
    Headstamp ID Primer Annulus Color Bullet Tip Color Other Features Functional Type
    VII or VIIZ Purple None None Ball
    VIIIZ Purple None None Ball
    G1, G2, G3, G7 or G8 Red None None Tracer
    G4, G4Z, G6 or G6Z Red White None Tracer
    G5 or G5Z Red Gray None Tracer
    W1 or W1Z Green None None Armor-Piercing
    B4 or B4Z Blue None Step in bullet jacket Incendiary
    B6 or B6Z Blue None None Incendiary
    B7 or B7Z Blue Blue None Incendiary
    O.1 Black Black None Observing
    PG1 or PG1Z Red None Blue band on case base Practice-Tracer
    H1Z None None Front half of case blackened Grenade Discharger
    H2 None None Entire case blackened Grenade Discharger
    H4 None None Case blackened 3/4" inch from each end Grenade Discharger
    H7Z None None Rear Half of case blackened Grenade Discharger
    "2016: The year that hackers became more trusted than government or reporters."

  5. #25
    Veteran and Gun Nut Wolfhound's Avatar
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    Wow, thanks for the information. I am going to print out that chart. I have several hundred of the POF, about a hundred of the tracer and just a hand full of the incendiary. The tracer is in 2 sealed bags I picked up at a gun show many years ago. I guess it's possible someone mistakenly identified it as AP and painted the tips for easy recognition.

    The strange thing about the tracer ammo is the high crimp groves on the bullets. I am going to give them the magnet test when I get home later.
    Once the shooting starts, a plan is just a guess in a party dress. -Michael Yon

  6. #26
    Expert AmmoManAaron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfhound ***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)ed5511&p=6542574#post6542574" rel="nofollow">View Post
    Wow, thanks for the information. I am going to print out that chart. I have several hundred of the POF, about a hundred of the tracer and just a hand full of the incendiary. The tracer is in 2 sealed bags I picked up at a gun show many years ago. I guess it's possible someone mistakenly identified it as AP and painted the tips for easy recognition.

    The strange thing about the tracer ammo is the high crimp groves on the bullets. I am going to give them the magnet test when I get home later.
    Magnet test is not definitive, but I didn't notice the grooves in the first picture. Can you get a better pic? I suspect that somebody used legit AP pulled bullets (probably de-mil from .308 or .30-06) and loaded them into those .303 British cases. If you measure the diameter of the AP bullet, I'm betting it will be close to .308" rather than the .310"-.311" that your other 303 projos will measure. Primed cases (along with the cordite powder still stuffed in them) turn up from time to time, including on Gunbroker. The cordite is long strands that fill most of the length of the case and they are loaded into the case length-wise at the factory before the machinery forms the case neck (!) - it's the only way to get a bottle neck case full of those long strands (crazy Brits). The reason the primed and powdered .303 cases show up is from at least two reasons that I know of:
    1.) A ballistics lab wanted the original bullets for some sort of testing (they pull and reload the projos into other calibers to suit their purposes and to gain EXACT control of the pressures and velocities)
    2.) An importer got some civilian-sales-prohibited ammo so cheap that it was worth pulling them apart to sell just the case and powder on the civilian market. There was a civilian-sales import ban on tracer, incendiary, etc. put in place in about 1989, but appropriately licensed importers can still bring the ammo in for LE/Govt sales, sales to entities with a US gov't contract (think gov't contract for ballistic study, armor testing, or weapons testing), re-export, or de-mil. Since your .303 British round is headstamped as being a tracer, this makes sense. Some original mixed foreign military 7.62x39 cases were on the market a few years ago because the importer got the ammo so cheap that they could afford to pull and scrap/re-export the steel core and tracer bullets. The stuff was "battle field recovery" ammo and was nearly worthless to most legit armed forces so...tada! Kinda ugly mixed corrosive berdan primed 7.62x39 cases for the US civilian market! I bought a small drum of them for personal use so cheap that I don't mind cleaning after shooting
    "2016: The year that hackers became more trusted than government or reporters."

  7. #27
    Pics of the military ammo in magazines just like I found them.



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  8. #28
    A couple of 45acp that are interesting. The silver colored one says Western 45 Auto.
    ***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)ed5511&attachmentid=47390&d=***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)" title="Name: image_zpsbngjqnum.jpeg Views: 8 Size: 276.9 KB">image_zpsbngjqnum.jpeg***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)ed5511&attachmentid=47391&d=***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)" title="Name: image_zpsuniusmbu.jpeg Views: 9 Size: 170.7 KB">image_zpsuniusmbu.jpeg

  9. #29
    This is the orange, green and white tipped 30-06 beside the 40-82 WCF bases.

    ***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)ed5511&attachmentid=47395&d=***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)" title="Name: image_zpstblgbg6f.jpeg Views: 7 Size: 163.1 KB">image_zpstblgbg6f.jpeg
    This is a black tipped 30-60 with the 40-82 WCF bases. The bullet is damaged on the 40-82
    ***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)ed5511&attachmentid=47398&d=***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)" title="Name: image_zpskkl5k3py.jpeg Views: 9 Size: 254.8 KB">image_zpskkl5k3py.jpeg


    Base of black tipped and 40-82

    ***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)ed5511&attachmentid=47397&d=***Phone Number Hidden*** (See Rules for more info)" title="Name: image_zpsyzd9nakf.jpeg Views: 8 Size: 160.2 KB">image_zpsyzd9nakf.jpeg
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  10. #30
    Expert AmmoManAaron's Avatar
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    Hi Fullmag, sadly, I don't see anything I need for my collection in the pictures that you posted. But I do have an interesting tidbit about the USSC 1918 .45 ACP round you pictured. Note about the 3 stab crimps: this was a standard revolver load meant for the Model 1917 Colt and S&W revolvers. There were early complaints of bullets jumping forward, out or partially out of the cartridge cases in the cylinders of these revolvers due to insufficient crimp to hold them in (due to recoil inertia). Of course, in the auto pistol, this is not a problem, as the front inner wall of the magazine keeps the bullets from moving forward. If the darn thing had 6 stab crimps it would be a fairly rare helmet testing load and that would be something I would be interested in acquiring.

    "2016: The year that hackers became more trusted than government or reporters."

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