Dispensing Varget (or other extruded) powders

[Doublehelix]

I am a total reloading newbie, so be nice!

I went to Bobcat Armament to get some more reloading supplies today. Kimball is the best, if you have not driven over to Shelbyville, you need to... great prices, no hazmat fees, great service.

Anyway, I wanted to pick up some Varget powder as I am wanting to start on some .223 reloads in the near future (I am trying to stock up now before the election). We got into a discussion on the difficulty in loading extruded powders like Varget using a drum-type powder loader.

I have read many times that the ball-type of powders are easier to dispense, which makes total sense and is pretty obvious, but should I just avoid extruded powders all together if I am not willing to verify every load? Is this just a newbie issue, or someday when I am all grown up (!), will I be able to reliably load powders like Varget through my Lee Drum Powder Dispenser?

 

[SSGSAD]

I have used Lee "scoops", for 30+ years..... RCBS Beam scale, and 5 or so years ago, "graduated" to an electronic scale.....

I have used a drum type powder loader, and you hear the powder, crunching, if you will,

and I always load light, so no problems .....

If you are loading MATCH, you want to weigh EVERY charge .....

for plinking, not so much ..... just check every 5th to 10th shell,

and if you sense trouble, dump, and re do .....

 

[Broom_jm]

It all depends on the number of rounds you're wanting to load and whether or not you're willing to trust that powders are load by volume, not by weight. (The weight is just the convenient method we use to confirm volume.)

 

[canterbc]

I was also looking at Varget the last time I was there, and Kimball brought up the difficulty it can have out of a drum dispenser. I hear great things about it so I wanted to give it a try. I also didn't want to weigh every charge so I just got a couple different ball powders and called it a day.

 

[jstory]

I stayed away from extruded powders for a long time just for this reason. I recently picked up a RCBS Chargemaster and all my problems are solved. Granted, it was almost a $300 fix, but for me it was worth it.

 

[Doublehelix]

So as I look at decent alternatives for .223/5.56 loads other than Varget, here are a few non-extruded alternatives:

-Ramshot Tac (This is what I bought from Bobcat Armament)
-Ramshot X-Terminator
-Hodgdon H335
-Accurate 2230
-Hodgon CFE 223 (Not sure about this powder at all - "Copper Fouling Eraser" technology???)

Any comments on these 5 ball powders for the .223/5.56 platform? Any others that I should consider? It seems like most of the recommended powders that I see for these calibers in recipes are extruded/tubular powders.

What I may end up doing is using ball powder for plinking so I can verify every 5th or 10th load from the drum loader, and then for "match" grade loads, maybe go with an extruded powder and verify every load, just make less of them.

Thoughts?

 

[JStang314]

I would try a few and see which ones work best with your rifle and the bullets you are using. I have used Varget and H335. I have a 16" Carbine and shoot 55gr fmj hornady. I worked up loads using both powders and at I think 25.8gr of varget and 25gr of h335 I got just under and inch groups at 100 yards. Since they performed the same I made h335 my pet powder because it's cheaper and easier to load with.
You might have the same outcome with your varget and the TAC

also down the road of you want to spend more money to make things easier on yourself the RCBS chargemaster or other electronic dispense and measure tool is great for precision loading.

 

[Doublehelix]

also down the road of you want to spend more money to make things easier on yourself the RCBS chargemaster or other electronic dispense and measure tool is great for precision loading.

Thanks @JStang314. I appreciate your comments. I will probably pick up a pound or two of H335 to try out.

As far as the RCBS Chargemaster, I actually did buy the RCBS chargemaster 1500 digital scale so that I could add the dispenser part later and add it to the scale. I was really hoping to dispense on my press, but as I mentioned above, I may end up making a smaller number of "match" ammo using Varget (or similar) and weight each load, and then "mass produce" my plinking ammo using the drum dispenser on the press.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

-Hodgon CFE 223 (Not sure about this powder at all - "Copper Fouling Eraser" technology???)

I've not used the rifle powder, but have been satisfied with the CFE Pistol. The "CFE" part is just a metal that bonds easily with copper (antimony, maybe?) and makes it brittle. The idea is that the residue from the shot bonds with the copper left in the rifling of the previous bullet, makes the copper brittle, and then it is more easily blown out by the next shot. Testing has shown it to work as promised, though I suspect it's a problem that doesn't really matter to most of us with non-automatic guns at relatively low round count outings. If you've got a SAW you're going to run a few thousand rounds through at the range in an hour, may be more of an issue...and also if that's the case can we be friends?

 

[mac45]

My ARs seem to like Tac & H335 pretty well, but I've had the best luck w/ Varget.
It's really not that bad to meter. Try a can after you play with Tac for a while, I'll be surprised if you don't like it.

 

[djones]

I use a lot of IMR3031 in 308 and a few other calibers when loading on my 550 with Dillon's powder measure. Once the powder funnel engages the case push on the charge bar to help crunch through any stubborn sticks of powder. Has worked for me for a few years. I achieve better accuracy with 3031 over ball powders in the same burn range such as benchmark.

 

[oldpink]

As jstory already mentioned, one of the better automatic powder dispensers is the perfect solution for the texture of extruded powders.
In fact, I exclusively use extruded powders for my .30-06 -- IMR4895, IMR4350, and especially IMR4831 -- all of it dispensed with a PACT powder dispenser setup.
It's actually pretty quick, especially when the just charged case has its bullet seated, while the next charge dispenses.
Almost no time, if any, gets wasted that way.

 

[Robert Richardson]

I like the CFE 223 powder, flows very, very good.

 

[Doublehelix]

If you've got a SAW you're going to run a few thousand rounds through at the range in an hour, may be more of an issue...and also if that's the case can we be friends?

Haha! I wish! But if I did, I would keep all the fun for myself!!!

My ARs seem to like Tac & H335 pretty well, but I've had the best luck w/ Varget.
It's really not that bad to meter. Try a can after you play with Tac for a while, I'll be surprised if you don't like it.

It's worth a try for sure. I can dispense a few loads and check each one to see how it goes.

I use a lot of IMR3031 in 308 and a few other calibers when loading on my 550 with Dillon's powder measure. Once the powder funnel engages the case push on the charge bar to help crunch through any stubborn sticks of powder. Has worked for me for a few years. I achieve better accuracy with 3031 over ball powders in the same burn range such as benchmark.

I have read about others "crunching" their way through Varget as well. You and mac45 both seem to think I can make this happen.

As jstory already mentioned, one of the better automatic powder dispensers is the perfect solution for the texture of extruded powders.
In fact, I exclusively use extruded powders for my .30-06 -- IMR4895, IMR4350, and especially IMR4831 -- all of it dispensed with a PACT powder dispenser setup.
It's actually pretty quick, especially when the just charged case has its bullet seated, while the next charge dispenses.
Almost no time, if any, gets wasted that way.

PACT??? You were the one that convinced me to buy the RCBS Chargemaster 1500 scale so I could add the dispenser later! LOL! And now you tell me you have a PACT system??? Haha!!! I may have to add the RCBS Chargemaster dispenser to my setup and see how well it works. I watched a few YouTube videos, and it looks pretty slick.

I like the CFE 223 powder, flows very, very good.

Great, thanks. How well does it shoot?

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

TAC and H335 are great through the Dillon powder bar. I've had good luck with TAC on match heavy's and stick to H335 with my 55-62 grain varieties. It flows through the charge master smooth as heck, even better with the straw mod.

 

[sugarcreekbrass]

I was loading up some 243 today with H4895 in my Chargemaster. A few weeks ago it seemed to measure out very well. Today I had several over charged by .1 or .2 gr. Even with having to dump those charges I still go faster than using my Uniflow and beam scale. The only think I thought that was different was that I had the Chargemaster set for Auto today. I haven't had any issues with flake powder though.

 

[JStang314]

I was loading up some 243 today with H4895 in my Chargemaster. A few weeks ago it seemed to measure out very well. Today I had several over charged by .1 or .2 gr. Even with having to dump those charges I still go faster than using my Uniflow and beam scale. The only think I thought that was different was that I had the Chargemaster set for Auto today. I haven't had any issues with flake powder though.

Have you you tried putting about an inch of a McDonald's straw in the end of it? Making it stick out about 1/8" or so. Gets rid of the threads on the end of the dispenser and makes it go over less often on the cylindrical powders.

 

[t-squared]

Fortunecookie likes his new Lee Auto Drum.....[video=youtube;GQazETXEOM4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQazETXEOM4[/video]

 

[Doublehelix]

Fortunecookie likes his new Lee Auto Drum.....

That was helpful, thanks!

 

[RMC]

Is your 223 accurate enough to discern the difference between powders? If not, I would go with the one that is the easiest to work with. I'm guessing since you are new to reloading, you probably don't know. I think you are the only one that can answer most of your questions. Sitting down with an experienced reloader with similar goals will likely save you a lot of time and money.