Defensive ammo choice; Pick one

[Cameramonkey]

Ive got some "play money" cash in my pocket and was looking for a "better" ammo than the ball ammo for my AR for home defense. So far I found some 55gr soft point and some 55gr polymer tip. (40gr polymer too, not sure I want that light though) Which would you prefer for a defensive round?

Are they perfect? No. But its got to be better than the 855 Ive got in the mag now. If you can suggest some others on the shelf in indy for about $1.10-$1.25/rd I'm all ears. (cant break the bank because I need to get a box to test and a box to run)

And I really dont want to go online as I prefer to use the cash in my pocket vs credit card.

EDIT: The 855 is what I had handy. My AR is not primarily a defensive weapon but Im working to make it more involved in my plans vs just another long gun in the vault.

 

[throttletony]

Hornady TAP (heavy grain -- either 77 or 75)

 

[Cameramonkey]

Hornady TAP (heavy grain -- either 77 or 75)

OK, you either failed reading comprehension, or failed to elaborate.

If you can suggest some others on the shelf in indy for about $1.10-$1.25/rd I'm all ears.

So did you not see I was asking ONLY for the choices listed, or did you forget to tell me where to buy this TAP in indy for the price stated?

EDIT: Sorry, its been a long day of me asking plain, direct questions and being either ignored, or stared at with a deer in the headlights look.

 

[sloughfoot]

55 grain fmj is ideal for home defense. I am not sure why you think something else is better. M855 is a horrible choice. M193 tumbles and breaks apart into several pieces. It rarely over penetrates and is a devastating round at close range.

Facklers data is just as valid in 2016 as it was 25 years ago.

 

[Cameramonkey]

55 grain fmj is ideal for home defense. I am not sure why you think something else is better. M855 is a horrible choice. M193 tumbles and breaks apart into several pieces. It rarely over penetrates and is a devastating round at close range.

Facklers data is just as valid in 2016 as it was 25 years ago.

But a soft point or polymer tip that would cause some expansion/distortion wouldnt be better than a FMJ?

And pardon my ignorance, but who the fack is Fackler? (see what I did there? LOL) Please enlighten me.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Insufficient info, as there's multiple offerings of each type.

I'd read this: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?4344-5-56-mm-Duty-Loads and then make a determination.

55 grain fmj is ideal for home defense. I am not sure why you think something else is better. M855 is a horrible choice. M193 tumbles and breaks apart into several pieces. It rarely over penetrates and is a devastating round at close range.

Facklers data is just as valid in 2016 as it was 25 years ago.

Fackler didn't seem to be a fan of M193, at least according to this quote:

“In 1980, I treated a soldier shot accidentally with an M16 M193 bullet from a distance of about ten feet. The bullet entered his left thigh and traveled obliquely upward. It exited after passing through about 11 inches of muscle. The man walked in to my clinic with no limp whatsoever: the entrance and exit holes were about 4 mm across, and punctate. X-ray films showed intact bones, no bullet fragments, and no evidence of significant tissue disruption caused by the bullet’s temporary cavity. The bullet path passed well lateral to the femoral vessels. He was back on duty in a few days. Devastating? Hardly. The wound profile of the M193 bullet (page 29 of the Emergency War Surgery—NATO Handbook, GPO, Washington, D.C., 1988) shows that most often the bullet travels about five inches through flesh before beginning significant yaw. But about 15% of the time, it travels much farther than that before yawing—in which case it causes even milder wounds, if it missed bones, guts, lung, and major blood vessels. In my experience and research, at least as many M16 users in Vietnam concluded that it produced unacceptably minimal, rather than “massive”, wounds. After viewing the wound profile, recall that the Vietnamese were small people, and generally very slim. Many M16 bullets passed through their torsos traveling mostly point forward, and caused minimal damage. Most shots piercing an extremity, even in the heavier-built Americans, unless they hit bone, caused no more damage than a 22 caliber rimfire bullet.”

Fackler, ML: “Literature Review”. Wound Ballistics Review; 5(2):40, Fall 2001

 

[M67]

55gr soft top is pretty effective but depends on how the bullet is constructed in general

55gr speer gold dot or some of the federal fusion ammo.of the same, it's the same gold dot bullet

Fast and expands well.

 

[Greyson]

Thanks for asking this question CameraMonkey.
The 5.56 platform is my goto for home defense and I am very interested in the responses here.
I have some hollow points specifically for that application but have seen no ballistic gel tests.
What ammo are the police using?

 

[Bfish]

If I'm not mistaken, you live with neighbors close. You may consider something that's supposed to work well with HD in mind. I would like to see a Hornady TAP shot through walls. I've seen a 55grain FMJ and it wasn't stopping at all.
As far as soft point and or hollow point, it's more of a feeding issue than the terminal effect I would be worried about. Buy a bit of both and see how they feed and function, then make your choice.

 

[AngryRooster]

Here's a page with a ton of information on 223 & 5.56 ammo, ballistics, wounding, etc.
:: Ammo Oracle

Each of the categories on the left open into several others. You can read for several hours on this. There are lots of pictures and comparisons as well.



We have 4 AR's in the house. Three 16" (2 carbine, 1 mid-length) and one 20" scoped. Our main ammo supply is M193 followed by M855. The 20" gets 77 Razor Core. The M193 will do just about anything you ask of it inside 300 yards. The M855 is for barriers and the 77RC is for longer range and better accuracy.

The short range performance of the M193 is excellent. It gets it's power from velocity and the ability to tumble & fragment. Not all 55 grain is the same though.

M193

Wolf fired into gel from 16" carbine at a distance of 16 feet.

This is a wound from a single M193 from a M16A1. It was in the Philippines and the shot was across the street distance. The picture is after the doctor has cleaned the wound but you get the idea. There are other pictures and write ups on this that are much more graphic.

Of the 3 choices you have listed I would choose the 55 SP. It will penetrate enough but should not over penetrate. SP rounds are controlled expansion rounds so will not get fragmentation like the M193. The other two I would avoid due to lack of penetration. My first choice would be the M193 though.

 

[MindfulMan]

This article on AR15.com (Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo) and its associated links helped me in making the same decision, Cameramonkey.
For my situation and rifle, I went with the 55 grain Speer Gold Dots in .223. Among other reasons, I liked the fact that the casings were nickel plated.
Sorry, but I don't know where you can buy this ammo locally. Anymore, I buy most of my ammo online.

 

[warthog]

IDK what the living situation is for you, nearness of neighbors, what sort of building materials in you home and so on. I wouldn't use a rifle at all, I would use a shotgun with some lower velocity buck shot in it. Even then you can get into trouble with penetration of walls and endangering family members. If you lived in a larger house on acreage a rifle might be fine though.

I would look for something with a ballistic tip, they tend to feed better in mine at least over soft point or regular hollow point. I would stick with lighter bullets like the 55 gr stuff over a heavier bullet. Which brand and bullet specifically? I guess I can't help there nor can I tell you where to go since I don't live nearby so I don't know the places you have to go to there.

I would stick with something other than theAR for general HD though. I would keep it handy in case of Zombies or other threats like riots or civil unrest but would stay with a shotgun with a lighter load of #4 Buck. Even then it is iffy as to who might get some of this through walls and such. And I am no help at all.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

What ammo are the police using?

Depends, as different departments use different ammo. We use Remington 55 gr bonded softpoint. It works quite well in most circumstances, although there are better options if you need to punch through intermediate barriers like car doors. The link I posted above discusses the FBI's load.

 

[Hop]

Save the varmint rounds for varmints, save the M855 penetrator for Russian helmeted enemies at long distance. M193 wouldn't be bad.

I've seen various loads of TAP or MK262 equivalent at several stores up here on the NE side. iirc you are close to the Bradis or Plainfield Shooting Supplies side of town. I'm pretty sure I've seen it there in your price range. IMI makes a very close clone of MK262 (not as good as the CBC/Matech stuff imo but you can at least find it right now). Prices are ~75 cents per rnd. Maybe try some of that. Seems like anything using an open tip boat tail Sierra Match King heavy bullet is very popular and a great performer right now.

My home defense AR is loaded with the CBC stuff when I can find it. I've had to switch to easier to find ADI 69 gr SMK. I get good groups with that stuff & it was on sale at Cabelas for ~$11 / 20 rnds.

There's a Dr (DocGKR???) that does a lot of wound ballistic testing over on M4C but I can't seem to find one of his threads right now.

 

[Greyson]

All these responses are great! I have some reading to do now. Thanks!

Yes, I have family and neighbors close by. My concern is that a round that doesn't penetrate things I don't want to shoot, won't penetrate the things I want to be thoroughly shot. The loads in my handgun will penetrate lots of things so I expect at least as much from my rifle.

The safety of my family and neighbors is my responsibility. That works both ways.
Am I being stoopid?

From AR15.com: Fact: Interestingly enough, in FBI Firearms Training Unit tests show that submachinegun and handgun rounds penetrated more on average than .223/5.56mm rounds in typical interior construction and tissue.

 

[AngryRooster]

All these responses are great! I have some reading to do now. Thanks!

Yes, I have family and neighbors close by. My concern is that a round that doesn't penetrate things I don't want to shoot, won't penetrate the things I want to be thoroughly shot. The loads in my handgun will penetrate lots of things so I expect at least as much from my rifle.

The safety of my family and neighbors is my responsibility. That works both ways.
Am I being stoopid?

From AR15.com: Fact: Interestingly enough, in FBI Firearms Training Unit tests show that submachinegun and handgun rounds penetrated more on average than .223/5.56mm rounds in typical interior construction and tissue.

Yep. The small bullets tend to fragment in walls and other construction material. The downside of the AR in a home defense role is the blast. If you've never fired a rifle inside a building without ear protection then it's something to consider. It's not fun.

 

[RobbyMaQ]

124 gr gold dot was not on the list, so I beg to defer...

 

[warthog]

Yeah, Arfcom would be my source for all things true and factual.

Yes, small, lighter bullets are less likely to blow through a wall and kill a family member. Firing inside without hearing protection is sure to leave a person a bit stunned, I have done it myself protecting myself and home but it was a shotgun and was a terrible experience. Personally though, I would stick to a shottie, it is sure to be alot louder and more stunning to fire indoors than an AR but I still think low recoil, #4 buck will be a lot less likely to go through a wall. Of course, I am not expert nor do I post on Arfcom, ever.

 

[cosermann]

OP, some good resources have been shared for reading if you hadn't already seen those (maybe you had).

Is barrier penetration a requirement or not? To me, that's a significant deciding factor.

 

[Cameramonkey]

OP, some good resources have been shared for reading if you hadn't already seen those (maybe you had).

Is barrier penetration a requirement or not? To me, that's a significant deciding factor.

Yes. Based on BBI's advice given the choice at hand I'll probably go soft point just to optimize the ammo. I'll eventually go with something better like the heavy hitting cutting edge PDX and the like.

And it probably bears repeating this is NOT a primary weapon so things like over penetration isnt on my list of concerns. If I get to my AR, I have already burned through other options and the Monkey is having a REALLY bad day.