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  • bobjones223

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    Mar 3, 2011
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    Noblesville, IN
    Ok so I have started reloading 45 Colt and was having a problem with my brass being under sized and is made seating the brass tough.

    I contacted Lee about this and they had me send in my sizing die and some brass. I did so and they informed me that reason it was under sizing was because my brass was to thick?.....I am not sure how thick brass affected the OD of the brass.. (It was sizing the OD to .466" instead of the .480" specified.) I can understand it affecting ID but not OD.

    Long story short the sent my sizing die back along with am additional oversized die at NO CHARGE!

    I was impressed even if I don't agree with their logic.
     

    1911ly

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    Dec 11, 2011
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    I would be curious if you had some unfired brass to measure and see what the deal really is. Most importantly though Lee took care of you.
     

    Broom_jm

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    Ok so I have started reloading 45 Colt and was having a problem with my brass being under sized and is made seating the brass tough.

    I contacted Lee about this and they had me send in my sizing die and some brass. I did so and they informed me that reason it was under sizing was because my brass was to thick?.....I am not sure how thick brass affected the OD of the brass.. (It was sizing the OD to .466" instead of the .480" specified.) I can understand it affecting ID but not OD.

    Long story short the sent my sizing die back along with am additional oversized die at NO CHARGE!

    I was impressed even if I don't agree with their logic.


    It took me a minute to figure out that you meant you were having a hard time seating the BULLET. If the sizing die was squeezing the OD of the case mouth down to .466", that is WAY too small, as you found out. My guess is your brass is just fine and their original die is not built to spec. You can disassemble it and find out, but the best solution for the older, thin-walled brass cases, is the Lyman M die. This is especially true if your loads are on the mild side. The M die works with a collet and mandrel system that resizes the case mouth perfectly, with almost no chance of damaging it. If you're loading cast bullets, do yourself a favor and get the M die...you'll be glad you did! :)
     

    Leo

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    the best solution for the older, thin-walled brass cases, is the Lyman M die. This is especially true if your loads are on the mild side. The M die works with a collet and mandrel system that resizes the case mouth perfectly, with almost no chance of damaging it. If you're loading cast bullets, do yourself a favor and get the M die...you'll be glad you did! :)

    +1 It is also great when using lead bullets in rifle, like 45-70, 30-30, etc.
     

    oldpink

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    Starline cases?

    That was my first thought, too, although I've never had any problems with Starline, and it's definitely what I prefer above all others, especially since Federal quit making their unprimed .45 Colt brass available.
     

    oldpink

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    It took me a minute to figure out that you meant you were having a hard time seating the BULLET. If the sizing die was squeezing the OD of the case mouth down to .466", that is WAY too small, as you found out. My guess is your brass is just fine and their original die is not built to spec. You can disassemble it and find out, but the best solution for the older, thin-walled brass cases, is the Lyman M die. This is especially true if your loads are on the mild side. The M die works with a collet and mandrel system that resizes the case mouth perfectly, with almost no chance of damaging it. If you're loading cast bullets, do yourself a favor and get the M die...you'll be glad you did! :)

    I thought the M die was not a resizing die, but only a neck expander with a unique dual diameter expander stem designed to make seating bullets in straight walled cases easier.
    To the OP, I have to ask, did you use the neck expander before trying to seat your bullets?
    That may sound insulting, but I only mention it because I see no way that you would ever have a problem seating a bullet unless you neglected to use the expander die first.
     

    bobjones223

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    Noblesville, IN
    I thought the M die was not a resizing die, but only a neck expander with a unique dual diameter expander stem designed to make seating bullets in straight walled cases easier.
    To the OP, I have to ask, did you use the neck expander before trying to seat your bullets?
    That may sound insulting, but I only mention it because I see no way that you would ever have a problem seating a bullet unless you neglected to use the expander die first.

    Yes I did use the expanding die after sizing. The Hornady XTP's were actually leaving a visable ring in the brass at the bottom of the projectile.
     

    oldpink

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    Yes I did use the expanding die after sizing. The Hornady XTP's were actually leaving a visable ring in the brass at the bottom of the projectile.

    Thanks
    One other possibility is that the expander plug is undersized.
    Reloading equipment manufacturers are still run by fallible humans who could have flubbed that part when they boxed up your die set.
    Just an educated guess, but it just seems like such a strange problem that shouldn't happen ordinarily.
    As I said, it just doesn't seem possible to have trouble seating bullets unless something is wrong with the expander die.
    As the Brom_jm already mentioned, the Lyman M die expander might be just the ticket if you ever encounter this problem in the future.
     

    Sling10mm

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    Mar 12, 2012
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    Thanks
    One other possibility is that the expander plug is undersized.
    Reloading equipment manufacturers are still run by fallible humans who could have flubbed that part when they boxed up your die set.
    Just an educated guess, but it just seems like such a strange problem that shouldn't happen ordinarily.
    As I said, it just doesn't seem possible to have trouble seating bullets unless something is wrong with the expander die.
    As the Brom_jm already mentioned, the Lyman M die expander might be just the ticket if you ever encounter this problem in the future.


    Yeah, this is what I was thinking as well. Even if the sizing die is squeezing the case down too much, the expander should open it back up for the proper amount of bullet tension. Have you measured the expander button, and is it going deep enough into the case to flare the mouth? What bullet are you using, and have you checked the bullet OD?
     

    Broom_jm

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    It would be easy enough to tell...take the original die apart and remove the expander piece, presuming it has one...some don't.

    The Lee sizing die is reportedly squeezing the OD down way too much, which wouldn't be evident if there is an expander button bringing the ID back to spec. I wish I could get my hands on the die to figure it out.

    I had a similar type of issue with a 225 Win sizing die, which I solved by buying a Redding neck-sizer...now I get better case life and better accuracy. The M die is great for protecting the thin case mouths of rounds like the 45 Colt and 44/40.
     

    Seancass

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    Are you having trouble firing the ammunition? Are you shaving copper off the side of the bullet?

    Being able to "see" the bullet inside the case, where the case is slightly bulged by the bullet is a GOOD thing! That's neck tension. If you're loading warm-to-hot 45C or 44M, you definitely want that. It's not even a bad thing on standard 45C. Crimp does not hold a bullet in place in a big revolver, neck tension does. I won't be surprised if you have bullet-pull issues with your new die, depending on loads, of course.

    "Undersizing" your brass is likely to shorten brass life, but it could also mean your chambers are Oversized. Sizing your brass to your chambers should extend case life. If you're shooting very light Cowboy loads, you shouldn't have issues with bullet pull and you'll have longer brass life. (but after dozens of loading on some cases, I haven't worn out a 44 or 45 case, so whatever that's worth)

    As mentioned, make sure your expander is expanding and flaring. In the interest of neck-tension on magnum rounds, it's not uncommon to turn down the OD of the expander so that it only flares and maximizes neck tension.

    Anywho, I'm impressed Lee took care of you like that! They gave you exactly what you wanted for no charge! That's awesome.
     

    bobjones223

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    Sorry, I have been mobile and haven't had a chance to get back on here with a full keyboard.

    So I loaded up some rounds with the new oversized die and things look and fit a LOT better. The reason I still say it was the sizing die is because of the O.D. of .466" on the brass. I explained to Lee that that was way to small and I didn't want to subject my brass to that much manipulation in the sizing process and cause premature brass fatigue.

    With the old sizing die I actually had two of my brass rip a strip out the full length and pile it up like an accordion at the bottom of the bullet. The flair dia is working just fine I just think that since it was so undersized that once it went through the flair it was snapping back to the undersized dimension. It actually took a fair bit of force to pull it off the flair die.

    As for the chamber of the gun. My fired brass come out very close to the .480" O.D. the 45 Colt brass should be. If I take a fired brass and placed a new XTP on top at .452" it would set on top of the brass and could forced in a little bit with a large amount of thumb pressure so I don't think it was a chamber issue. Honestly I didn't think my fire brass really require resizing but I had to do it in order to get them deprimed. I would have loved to just tried to reload without sizing, use a full crimp, and seen how that worked because they really are pretty tight right after use......(get your heads out of the gutter!)
     
    Last edited:

    oldpink

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    Sorry, I have been mobile and haven't had a chance to get back on here with a full keyboard.

    So I loaded up some rounds with the new oversized die and things look and fit a LOT better. The reason I still say it was the sizing die is because of the O.D. of .466" on the brass. I explained to Lee that that was way to small and I didn't want to subject my brass to that much manipulation in the sizing process and cause premature brass fatigue.

    With the old sizing die I actually had two of my brass rip a strip out the full length and pile it up like an accordion at the bottom of the bullet. The flair dia is working just fine I just think that since it was so undersized that once it went through the flair it was snapping back to the undersized dimension. It actually took a fair bit of force to pull it off the flair die.

    As for the chamber of the gun. My fired brass come out very close to the .480" O.D. the 45 Colt brass should be. If I take a fired brass and placed a new XTP on top at .452" it would set on top of the brass and could forced in a little bit with a large amount of thumb pressure so I don't think it was a chamber issue. Honestly I didn't think my fire brass really require resizing but I had to do it in order to get them deprimed. I would have loved to just tried to reload without sizing, use a full crimp, and seen how that worked because they really are pretty tight right after use......(get your heads out of the gutter!)

    You may be onto something, but loading straight walled cartridges isn't the same as bottleneck cartridges in terms of the need to fully resize or not.
    What really keeps the bullet in place is bullet tension, with the crimp only serving to guide the cartridge into the chamber and preventing the bullet from slipping under heavy recoil.
    Because of that, it's essential for straight walled cartridges to be full length resized, not just to get that all important neck tension, but to allow the cartridge to chamber without hanging up.
    It is true that strong bolt action rifles can have their brass neck sized only for a few firings, just as long as they are to be fired in the same rifle that fired them before being reloaded, but that's only because the bullet tension is still being maintained by the neck portion being brought back down enough, while the body of the case should still chamber because of the strong camming action of the bolt action.
     
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