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  • Doublehelix

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    Jun 20, 2015
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    I have been trying not to flood this forum with dumb questions as I spend my first full week reloading and testing. Thanks to 1911ly for all of his help behind the scenes!!!

    My latest set of 9mm cartridges seem to have a small bulge where the bullet sits in the cartridge. I am not sure if I noticed this or not on my earlier set of reloads. I also see this in my factory cartridges that I compared them to, although to a lesser degree. I want to make sure there is not something that I am doing wrong.

    My nickname has always been "He who walks tall with huge bulge in pants" :laugh:, but that is a completely different situation and a story for another time!!!

    Background Info:

    9mm Berry's Coated bullets, 124 gr
    Mixed brass
    Lee powder-through Flare die
    Lee Factory Crimp Die

    Does this bullet bulge look normal? I am talking about the case bulge just down to where the bullet is seated.





    Here is how the case flare looks before seating the bullet (Lee powder-through flaring die):




    I compared these to some factory rounds (Fiocchi and CCI Blazer), and although they have the same bulge, it is not as pronounced. This is definitely not the greatest picture, you can see the bulge easier in person. The Fiocchi is on the left and the CCI Blazer is on the right:



    You can see more bulge with the Fiocchi round in the picture, but both cartridges have the bulge, just not as prominent as the ones on my reloads.

    All of my reloads pass the plunk test without issues, and as you can see, fit into my Lyman case checker just fine. I know this is not a definitive result, but it is a data point nonetheless:




    Am I OK here, or is there something that I need to adjust?

    THANKS!!!


    Here are some measurements for the numbers guys (as measured):

    Berry's bullet diameter at the base = 0.3525"
    Berry's bullet length = 0.5870"

    Reloaded case O.D. after resize - no bullet (Lee FCD) = 0.371"
    Reloaded case I.D. after resize - no bullet = 0.3515"

    Reloaded case O.D. after flare = 0.3800"
    Reloaded case I.D. after flare = 0.3595

    Reloaded case mouth O.D. - bullet inserted = 0.3750"
    Fiocchi case mouth O.D. - bullet inserted = 0.3740"
    Blazer case mouth O.D. - bullet inserted = 0.3730"
    (I know there are all different bullets from different manufacturers, and the factory rounds are FMJ not plated.)
     
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    It is your resizer. It is not a problem.. when forming metal you have to squeeze it smaller that you want it to be so it springs back to the correct size... your case is not springing back as far.. as long as you are within the chamber specs you are fine.. Factory rounds often do not show the bulge because they are not resized.. the case is made to size & then loaded..
     

    Broom_jm

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    "If the case fits, you must acquit!" Wait...that was something else.

    Since your finished rounds pass the plunk test and fit in the Lyman case gauge, you are G2G. What you're seeing is likely the result of a sizing die that is squeezing the case BODY down more than is needed, without bringing it back up. Measure the OD of the body of a fired case and a sized case before flaring. I suspect you'll find quite a disparity.

    Consider backing your sizing die off 1/8th of a turn...you might like the results.
     

    Doublehelix

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    It is your resizer. It is not a problem.. when forming metal you have to squeeze it smaller that you want it to be so it springs back to the correct size... your case is not springing back as far.. as long as you are within the chamber specs you are fine.. Factory rounds often do not show the bulge because they are not resized.. the case is made to size & then loaded..

    "If the case fits, you must acquit!" Wait...that was something else.

    Since your finished rounds pass the plunk test and fit in the Lyman case gauge, you are G2G. What you're seeing is likely the result of a sizing die that is squeezing the case BODY down more than is needed, without bringing it back up. Measure the OD of the body of a fired case and a sized case before flaring. I suspect you'll find quite a disparity.

    Consider backing your sizing die off 1/8th of a turn...you might like the results.

    All of this makes perfect sense, and it appears that I am "squeezing" the case too much. However, there is no way to change the amount of squeezing in the die. Since this is a tapered cartridge however, by backing the die out slightly, I can reduce the overall squeezing. This also makes perfect sense.

    How do I know what I have backed it out too much? Will I see a bulge on the bottom of the case where the head meets the body?
     
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    I would not back out the sizer, that risks not sizing the whole case ..
    You can not do much unless you get real strict on what cases you use, what thickness the case wall is.. and have the sizer die cut to the exact size you want.. If the ammo feeds and hit the target, then the bulge is simply cosmetic..
     

    sloughfoot

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    Do not back out the resizing die. All of my 9mm reloads look like that. And I want them to look like that. It is almost impossible to get bullet setback. I don't flare my cases that much though.
     

    Doublehelix

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    Thanks everyone. I did back out my flare die a bit and also a little bit on my sizing die. I measured the head of the cartridges and they are the same size as before the die adjustment, and the same as the factory loads, so I should be good. All passed the plunk test and the Lyman case checker as well.

    Things are good, I am going to shoot them right now!
     

    Broom_jm

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    Dies are cut with reamers, which can be brand new or worn out to the point where they almost need to be replaced or reground. The same is true with firing chambers. The diameter of both can vary, within a range of tolerances. If your sizing die was cut with a worn reamer, it can be on the tight side of spec...which means it will size your 9mm brass just a tiny bit more than is required. If your chamber was cut with a brand new reamer, it may be on the larger side of spec. Combine those two and you can encounter all sorts of fun things, when it comes time to size your cases.

    To wit: You can probably back the die off a bit and the resulting sized brass will always feed just fine...in your chamber. The same brass would not necessarily chamber consistently in other guns, which may or may not matter to you and your situation. While this is not as easy to do with rounds fired/reloaded for pistol, there are plenty of times when resizing is not required at all. I know I just heard a collective gasp, but think about how often you hear the recommendation to neck-size rifle cartridges. If the case body (of any round) easily fits back into the chamber it is to be fired from, why squeeze it down and then bring it back up more than you have to?

    What if I told you some guys reload pistol/revolver ammo by using nothing but a Lyman M die to expand the case mouth and then a Lee Factory Crimp Die, and it works just fine?

    There are rules, and there is understanding the rules enough to know when you can break them. Your gun will tell you, if you know how to listen.
     

    gmcttr

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    ...Since this is a tapered cartridge however, by backing the die out slightly, I can reduce the overall squeezing...

    Although the 9mm specs call for a tapered case, your carbide die is not tapered. The resizing is done by the die mouth and provides a straight walled case for the area sized. That is why our reloads have a more pronounced bulge than factory ammo.

    "Backing the die out slightly" will have no effect on the 'bullet bulge'. As other's have stated, keep the die set up as recommended by the manufacturer.
     

    1911ly

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    I agree. don't re-adjust the sizing die. The flaring die can be adjusted back a bit as long as the seating die will start the bullet straight and the case does not shave the bullet. The imprint isn't extremly alarming. Your die could be sizing the brass a little tight. You can send a couple fired cases and the die back to Lee and they will make any changes needed, if any are needed.

    I think you are doing fine.
     

    Leadeye

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    In 40+ years I've fired a lot of 9mm that looked just like that in lots of different guns. No issues.
     

    EyeCarry

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    Those rounds look like mine and function is fine.
    I agree that your flare looks a little much. If my bullet just goes in the case I think the flare is enough. I use mixed brass and try to get the flare as equal as I can across all brands. So some may have just a little less flare and some may have just a bit more. I think it is more due to wall thickness than length.
     

    noylj

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    Exactly what problem do you think it would cause?
    This "wasp waist" or "Coca Cola bottle" effect seems to happen almost only with 9x19, and even then not very often, and some consider it a plus as it may help prevent bullet set-back.
    When fired, the case has to expand before the bullet can even begin to leave the case, so this will be removed at the same time and has never had any effect on anything.
    It would be nice if manuals including these sorts of things so beginners would know what was happening.
    Now, if the bulge was on only one side of the case, that would indicate that the bullet was seated crooked.
     

    Broom_jm

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    Although the 9mm specs call for a tapered case, your carbide die is not tapered. The resizing is done by the die mouth and provides a straight walled case for the area sized. That is why our reloads have a more pronounced bulge than factory ammo.

    "Backing the die out slightly" will have no effect on the 'bullet bulge'. As other's have stated, keep the die set up as recommended by the manufacturer.

    Good point about the carbide sizing ring...I'm using older RCBS steel dies.
     

    rvb

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    The 'coke bottle' look is a good thing on straight wall pistol cartridges. Make sure the bullets are .355, but they should be ok as it fits your gauge.
    -rvb
     

    SSGSAD

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    In 40+ years I've fired a lot of 9mm that looked just like that in lots of different guns. No issues.


    AMEN,to THIS.....

    I have been reloading 9mm, since 1980, and at first, like you, I wondered what was wrong .....

    Took a reloading class, in Ca., and then taught a reloading class, and found out that

    what has been said, is true .....

    Sometimes you get a "buldge", and sometimes, you don't .....

    It has not affected any of my case life, or anything else ....
     

    oldpink

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    Yep, those rounds look perfectly acceptable, and I'll second Sloughfoot's suggestion to back off just a wee bit on flaring the case mouth.
    Using just enough flare to get the bullet to seat smoothly will ensure good bullet tension and give you more case life.
     

    Doublehelix

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    You listed: "9mm Berry's Coated bullets, 124 gr" as what you were loading. You showed Berry's PLATED bullets in your pictures??

    Notice the .356" Berry's VS the .355" X-treme..



    https://www.berrysmfg.com/item/bp-9mm-356-124gr-rn#


    9mm-124 RN

    The X-treme plated will probably solve your concern..Bill.


    Yeah, I am a total idiot, plated, not coated. Sorry about that. Too many things going through my brain at once.

    I did also just order some X-treme plated bullets from their Black Friday Sale, so I will check those out and see if I can notice any difference.

    The bottom line is that it appears that I am fine with my large bulge (I've been told! ;)), and as long as it plunks and fires, I won't worry about it.

    I fired them yesterday, and they shot great, honestly. They were a bit hot for my small P938, but in my larger pistols fired just fine.

    Regarding die adjustment, I will go back down a bit with the resizing die, and back off on the flaring die a bit (which I have already done, actually).

    Thanks to everyone for all of the great help and support for a newbie!
     
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