Bullet speed vs expansion

[HubertGummer]

So I just acquired a M&P 45c and have been cruising the inerwebs for the most efficient bullet weight and +p or not.

I use HST 124 and 147 gr in my 9mm's and would like to run that in my .45 as well.

I have read several things and am still not sure.

One says the .45 230 gr non +p moves to slow to reliably expand.

Another says the .45 230 gr +p moves too fast and will expand before it penetrates fully.

I have also read similar things about 9mm 115 gr vs 147 gr.

What are the thoughts on INGO?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Both are on DocGKR's list, meaning both perform acceptably.

IMO, the extra recoil of the +p is not worth any marginal differences in expansion.

 

[cosermann]

Both are on DocGKR's list, meaning both perform acceptably. . .

For those unfamiliar with the list. . . .

https://www.ar15.com/ammo/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/#mozTocId986750

 

[HubertGummer]

That list helps, thanks for posting.

Looks like I'll stick to the standard pressure version.

 

[Sniper 79]

I let .45 be a .45 and only run 230grn ball. Anything else is blasphemy.

Same goes for any other caliber. Appreciate them for what they are and life is good.

 

[Ngdonut]

I let .45 be a .45 and only run 230grn ball. Anything else is blasphemy.

Same goes for any other caliber. Appreciate them for what they are and life is good.

I only shoot 230 gr out of my .45 autos for the same reason, though not exactly a scientific one.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I let .45 be a .45 and only run 230grn ball. Anything else is blasphemy.

Same goes for any other caliber. Appreciate them for what they are and life is good.

The very first person shot I ever responded to was a woman shot in the chest with a .45 on Mother's Day. She was a waitress and was robbed for her tips. The bullet entered her skin, caught a rib, and rode it around before exiting her back. She was in pain, but in good enough condition to talk, to identify the suspect who was caught nearby by officers getting ready to serve a warrant, etc. Ball deflects off bone, particularly ribs and skulls, easier and at less of an angle than HP or wadcutters. If ball is all I had, I'd prefer it to be in .45, but if my backside is on the line I'll use bonded HP if available.

 

[turnerdye1]

Isn't it odd how you remember all the small details of traumatic events? My first person shot, just happened to be with at .45 as well. Unfortunately for him the outcome was not as good. Hornady Critical Defense does a number to the head... Sadly this veteran had enough and ended it himself.

 

[oldpink]

The very first person shot I ever responded to was a woman shot in the chest with a .45 on Mother's Day. She was a waitress and was robbed for her tips. The bullet entered her skin, caught a rib, and rode it around before exiting her back. She was in pain, but in good enough condition to talk, to identify the suspect who was caught nearby by officers getting ready to serve a warrant, etc. Ball deflects off bone, particularly ribs and skulls, easier and at less of an angle than HP or wadcutters. If ball is all I had, I'd prefer it to be in .45, but if my backside is on the line I'll use bonded HP if available.

Oh you, with your flawed real world experience.
Seconded on using top quality bonded expanding bullets.
Adhering to traditionalism just for the sake of traditionalism with something as important as self-defense is less virtue and more foolish.

 

[OHOIAN]

The 45 was originally designed with 200g ball, the 230g ball is a result of government regulation.
There is no reason the 45 needs to expand, it is already the size a 9mm expands to.

 

[VERT]

Tagged for interest. I am currently running 230 grain standard pressure Golden Saber. I bought a bunch when I was packing around an alloy frame commander. The +P was just a bit too much recoil for good control liberty in that gun, plus the standard pressure loads were more accurate. Accuarcy and reliability trump terminal performance in gel.

Tagged because I have a pile like new Federal brass and I am considering loading up about 1000 Hornady XTPs in either 200 or 230 grain. I am not suggesting I would carry these but I might as well push them hard enough to actually expand. The linked chart was helpful. Looks like 850-900 will be sort of a minimum velocity to search for in the load.

 

[t-squared]

VERT, this site has the performance data for most brands. Might help you figure out an optimal velocity to aim for......

45 ACP Ballistics Chart | Ballistics 101

 

[KLB]

The 45 was originally designed with 200g ball, the 230g ball is a result of government regulation.
There is no reason the 45 needs to expand, it is already the size a 9mm expands to.

Huh? I think you need to do some research about the performance of different modern bullets. Start here.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/

 

[two70]

There is no reason the 45 needs to expand, it is already the size a 9mm expands to.

I'm having trouble following this line of thinking, why carry a 45 if you only want 9mm level performance?

 

[oldpink]

I'm having trouble following this line of thinking, why carry a 45 if you only want 9mm level performance?

Indeed
We constantly hear that a 9mm may or may not expand to .45 caliber, but a .45 will never shrink.
True, but why limit yourself to a .45 caliber crush cavity when you can have a .65 caliber instead?

 

[Woobie]

Oh you, with your flawed real world experience.
Seconded on using top quality bonded expanding bullets.
Adhering to traditionalism just for the sake of traditionalism with something as important as self-defense is less virtue and more foolish.

My favorite quote about tradition:

"A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."
-Henry David Thoreau.

 

[OHOIAN]

You guys are too serious, it was meant to be tongue in cheek

 

[Woobie]

You guys are too serious, it was meant to be tongue in cheek

I'm sorry I missed your sarcasm. The ball ammo argument has been made in earnest on here, and we try to nip that crap in the bud. Heck, the other day someone was saying they load their defensive pistol with a 9mm shot round as the first shot. It can be hard to tell who is being serious.

 

[cosermann]

You guys are too serious, it was meant to be tongue in cheek

Purple is your friend.

 

[oldpink]

You guys are too serious, it was meant to be tongue in cheek

Yes, sarcasm is so simple to recognize in the text medium, with no purple.