Short tunes and common calibers

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  • hog slayer

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    Unquestionably this has been covered previously somewhere. What's the difference in performance for our most common SD calibers from expectedly CCW length barrels i.e. 2" snubby-revolver for 357 (38 if you must),3 " barrel for your 45 and 9mm out of shield, xds ultra carry? Maybe even get some love for the 380 and 32 if someone is froggy.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    That's too broad a question to have a real answer, but in general terms as long as the bullet is operating at speeds it is designed for, it will work preeeettty much same-same. If we're talking HP, driving it too fast means it opens too soon and too much, hurting penetration. Drive it too slow, it won't open at all and is basically some hybrid FMJ/semi-wadcutter thing. If we're talking ball, too slow is not enough penetration, too fast is more penetration than useful at the cost of more recoil and muzzle flash.

    Per DocGKR, the heavy-for-caliber offerings do just fine in the "short barrel" 9mm, .40, and .45. His testing showed that there was more difference in lot-to-lot performance than in barrel length performance for the 147gr 9mm offerings.

    Revolvers, in my opinion, require being a bit more choosy simply because there's a lot more variation in revolver barrel lengths than in semi-autos. The difference between a Shield and a long slide M&P is just under 2". Popular revolvers range from under 2" to over 6". Finding something loaded for your barrel length becomes more and more important as you approach the ends of the spectrum. Short barrel Gold Dot has a good reputation for 2-3" barrel guns...when you can find it.
     

    sloughfoot

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    If in doubt, use the heaviest bullet for the caliber. 158 for 38, 147 for 9mm, 230 for 45. Nothing perfect ever will come out of a handgun but at least you have a chance for maximum penetration with the heavy bullets. They all have wimpy and unpredictable performance, no matter the hype by the ammo company marketing departments.

    I have never felt under-ammo'd even with the 158 LSWC. But that is just me. But I was glad that I changed out my hollow point ammo for flat point when I was in New Jersey last week.
     

    hog slayer

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    I had hoped to catch the attention of the data cruncher even with my misspelled title.

    So I can certainly look at graphs and charts myself. For instance, the 78 grain 45 from liberty defense out of a3"barrel as shown from ballisticsbytheinch.com has boatloads of power compared to its heavier siblings. It's this sort off thing that makes this all the more confusing, and interesting. And the heavy for caliber vs light is just what I'm after. I've played around with different weights of bullets while carrying as part of the conceal ability equation. 148gr 357's make carrying more difficult than 125 and below and 230gr 45 vs 185 is pretty significant. So then, beginning with the end in mind properly perforating a perpetrator so the play nice,does it matter much? Why?
     

    Woobie

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    I would just caution against using energy as a significant metric. The FBI pretty much gave up on it. They care if the projectile reliably penetrates no less than 12" and no more than 18", and does so after passing through a variety of intermediate materials. I'm not saying their needs are the exact same as mine or yours, but I don't have the time or money to come up with a better metric that suits my needs. So I defer to the mountain of ballistic research that has been done.

    Oh, and I'm not a revolver guy, but it seems shooting .357 is just for show. It doesn't gain you any velocity over a .38 in that short of a barrel. But I could be wrong, I haven't researched it in detail.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    I had hoped to catch the attention of the data cruncher even with my misspelled title.

    So I can certainly look at graphs and charts myself. For instance, the 78 grain 45 from liberty defense out of a3"barrel as shown from ballisticsbytheinch.com has boatloads of power compared to its heavier siblings.
    .

    Which tells you nothing about how it performs. "Power" in this sense is heavily waited toward speed, which is why the super light/super fast projectiles look impressive and are highly marketable to people who don't know the difference. In real use, they make messy but shallow injuries because they fragment too fast. They do not penetrate bone. They do not do well through heavy clothing. Anything that is so easy to accelerate is also easy to decelerate, and when it breaks up and each piece is decelerating separately, even more so.

    For 9mm and up, pick a bonded heavy-for-caliber projectile that shoots well out of the given gun and call it a day. For .38, from a real short barrel the wadcutter is also a reasonable choice, particularly if you want a lower recoil cartridge. For .380, it's tougher. HPs tend to be inconsistent and to under penetrate. I'd be tempted to run a hot FMJ like S&B if I were forced to carry a .380 for some reason. I don't have any recommendations for .32 or smaller other than "don't".
     

    t-squared

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    Some .380 hp loadings can give good expansion AND controlled penetration.....

    [video=youtube;GNtPHYwcDts]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtPHYwcDts[/video]
     

    t-squared

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    That viewpoint seems surprisingly shortsighted for you BBI....

    With the nearly infinite variables surrounding handgun wound results, I would think you would appreciate this repeatable "scientific" way of measuring round performance.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    That viewpoint seems surprisingly shortsighted for you BBI....

    With the nearly infinite variables surrounding handgun wound results, I would think you would appreciate this repeatable "scientific" way of measuring round performance.

    Actual professional testing, with real ballistic gel that's properly calibrated, yes. Amateur testing with clear gel, no. Your standards for what constitutes "proof" is up to you. My standards require a bit more than YouTube. As such, it remains "maybe" in my book.
     

    Woobie

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    Maybe this is unrealistic, but I would think putting 4 or 6 oz cotton fabric over a set of pork ribs backed up by 10% gel would give some insight. But it isn't done. I suppose it introduces some variables difficult to control.
     

    t-squared

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    Actual professional testing, with real ballistic gel that's properly calibrated, yes. Amateur testing with clear gel, no. Your standards for what constitutes "proof" is up to you. My standards require a bit more than YouTube. As such, it remains "maybe" in my book.

    He shows in this Federal HST video how he adheres the test standards for the gel he uses...
    This, and him using the same denim as the test standard requires are why his results are "proof worthy" to me...

    [video=youtube;lhByLwyvGpA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhByLwyvGpA[/video]
     
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