The Baltimore / Freddie Gray situation

[ArcadiaGP]

Again, surprised I didn't see a thread on this. It's been all over the news.

Freddie Gray death: Protesters rally in Baltimore - CNN.com

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...head-sees-sliver-of-hope-in-freddie-gray-case
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...-ci-freddie-gray-officers-20150421-story.html
http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/20/us/baltimore-freddie-gray-death/

Brief: Gray, a 25 year old, died of a spinal injury one week after being taken into custody. A lot of focus is "What happened in the van" after he was arrested.

Protests seem to be picking up, but remain non-violent.

 

[mrjarrell]

I've seen it elsewhere. Lots of folks on INGO just don't care about police brutality or murders any more. Some folks will go out of their way to justify them. Just another case of a person killed by out of control cops. Nothing to see here.

 

[chocktaw2]

I care what the police do. But after seeing it on the news 37 times, 6 times in the newspaper, hearing it 9 times on the radio, I guess I just wouldn't start a thread about it on

 

[Leadeye]

Pretty much just speculation right now, just have to see what come out of the investigation.

 

[mrjarrell]

Pretty much just speculation right now, just have to see what come out of the investigation.

Yeah, Baltimore cops investigating themselves. I'm sure we'll see an unbiased "investigation". Letting the fox investigate his crimes in the hen house always brings justice for the chickens.

 

[Leadeye]

Speculation is just what it is, until more info becomes available.

 

[Jomibe]

Lots of folks on INGO just don't care about police brutality or murders any more. Some folks will go out of their way to justify them.

I just want to see equal outrage from the public and media when a police officer is killed while putting his life on the line for that same public.

True police brutality disgusts me, but the term "police brutality" is over-used these days. The recent thing in California was truly police brutality and there is no room for it, but when a guy is being a smart mouthed punk to police officers and then cries that be got a bruise or a fat lip, give me a break. I'm pretty sure a lot of the folks police run into need a little attitude adjustment.

 

[17 squirrel]

The Feds have opened a investigation.

The U.S. Justice Department opened a civil rights investigation Tuesday into the death of Freddie Gray amid ongoing protests over the Baltimore man whose spine was allegedly severed while he was in police custody.

 

[ModernGunner]

Well, as always happens, we don't KNOW anything, but apparently some folks on INGO have already made the verdict and know 'exactly what transpired'.

Of course, these are the same people that knew 'exactly what transpired' in the Martin and Brown cases.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Two arrested

Protesters poured into the streets Thursday - Baltimore Sun

Well, as always happens, we don't KNOW anything, but apparently some folks on INGO have already made the verdict and know 'exactly what transpired'.

Of course, these are the same people that knew 'exactly what transpired' in the Martin and Brown cases.

Bingo.

 

[1775usmarine]

Well, as always happens, we don't KNOW anything, but apparently some folks on INGO have already made the verdict and know 'exactly what transpired'.

Of course, these are the same people that knew 'exactly what transpired' in the Martin and Brown cases.

Someone rep this man. My rep button is broken till I spread more wealth.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Riots and looting going on right now.
that's a shame.

Mayor of Baltimore instructs Camden Yards to not allow anyone to leave the ballpark.

In 1st public remarks, Freddie Gray's sister appeals for Baltimore protesters to stop violence. (Sadly, the violent protesters don't really give two ****s about her brother.)

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Interesting image for the official White House to tweet out. The song is "I don't care"

Also, after 8 years of the great uniter. The racial healing.... can you dig it?

 

[Kutnupe14]

Well, as always happens, we don't KNOW anything, but apparently some folks on INGO have already made the verdict and know 'exactly what transpired'.

Of course, these are the same people that knew 'exactly what transpired' in the Martin and Brown cases.

Are saying you aren't the slightest bit suspicious as to how a guy gets his spinal cord severed while interacting with LE? He ran upon seeing police. That shouldn't lead to being tackled in absence of an accompanying crime. He was subsequently arrested for having a switchblade.... a switchblade (legal here right?). If the officers severed his spine while tackling him, I would hope it would be obvious, and they would call for medical assistance. If not, then he was injured in the back of the police wagon.... which, of course, is no bueno too. It comes down to 3 options.... Freddie severed his own spine in the back of the wagon, the officers were too stupid to know that he was injured, or they knowingly injured him.

 

[drillsgt]

Interesting image for the official White House to tweet out. The song is "I don't care"

Also, after 8 years of the great uniter. The racial healing.... can you dig it?

Because smashing the windows of a high end purse store will ensure justice?

 

[ModernGunner]

Are saying you aren't the slightest bit suspicious as to how a guy gets his spinal cord severed while interacting with LE? He ran upon seeing police. That shouldn't lead to being tackled in absence of an accompanying crime. He was subsequently arrested for having a switchblade.... a switchblade (legal here right?). If the officers severed his spine while tackling him, I would hope it would be obvious, and they would call for medical assistance. If not, then he was injured in the back of the police wagon.... which, of course, is no bueno too. It comes down to 3 options.... Freddie severed his own spine in the back of the wagon, the officers were too stupid to know that he was injured, or they knowingly injured him.

Let me see if expanding the response provides any clarity.

We don't, as yet (unless someone has some info net yet presented) KNOW anything about what happened, how Gray sustained his injuries, or when. One can 'hope' all one wishes, but that's... well... less than meaningless.

Running upon seeing police? Any LEO worth his salt would be, at the very minimum, 'curious' as to why. And likely would pursue to find out why.

Doesn't matter, one iota, if the switchblade Gray possessed was legal in Indiana, or not. Which, by the way, was illegal until quite recently. Anyway, irrelevant. The relevant issue is, was / is it legal in Maryland? If not, that's a crime, right, an arrestable violation.

The media loons, and of course the cop-haters, race-baiters, rioting protesters, and the various malcontents immediately leapt upon this 'his spine was severed' verbiage. Why? Because it's sounds so bad. Much, much worse than 'spinal injury' or 'injury to the spine', or even 'severe injury to the spine'. But, what is meant by that 'horrendous' verbiage?

Would it be 'obvious' Gray's spine was 'severed'? That depends on what is meant by "severed", and IF that is actually the correct word being used. 'Severed' as in the bones of the spine, cut by a sword, as something ISIS might perpetrate? Or 'severed' as in the spinal cord, or some portion of the spinal cord? That could and would make a tremendous difference in what any non-Doctor-type person (like say... I dunno... LEOs) might know, or be aware of.

We have seen NO medical reports so far, AFAIK, clarifying the issue. For NOW, it's just a horrid term being used by both the "If it bleeds, it leads" crowd, and those low-lifes using it as a 'justification' to riot. One would certainly HOPE that NO LEO would jump on that bandwagon with those two groups of scumbags. IF they do so, and it's found that the verbiage is incorrect, they should turn in their badge & gun immediately, as they have NO business being a cop. Period.

For now, all there is in front of folks is speculation. Until details and specifics are known, that's ALL it is.

As also noted earlier, we heard the same rampant rhetoric being spewed in both the Trayvon Martin AND Michael Brown cases by those unwilling and too-quick to 'jump on the bandwagon and jump the shark'. And in both instances, specifically because of the race of the two individuals.

Those same folks were proven wrong once the facts came out.

It's frequently opined by some on INGO that LEO's are too quick to make a 'rash judgment', 'too quick on the trigger'. This would apply to voices as well as to firearms.

Until details and specifics are known, judgment will be reserved, as it should be by anyone, particularly LEO's who purport to do the job.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Let me see if expanding the response provides any clarity.

We don't, as yet (unless someone has some info net yet presented) KNOW anything about what happened, how Gray sustained his injuries, or when. One can 'hope' all one wishes, but that's... well... less than meaningless.

Running upon seeing police? Any LEO worth his salt would be, at the very minimum, 'curious' as to why. And likely would pursue to find out why.

Nothing wrong with pursuing, but once you employ force to stop them, sans a crime, you've stepped over the line. Or are you of the opinion that police should forcefully detain people for running?

Doesn't matter, one iota, if the switchblade Gray possessed was legal in Indiana, or not. Which, by the way, was illegal until quite recently. Anyway, irrelevant. The relevant issue is, was / is it legal in Maryland? If not, that's a crime, right, an arrestable violation.

As much as I hear about jury nullification, why shouldn't any Hoosier sympathize with Gray in this case. Sure it's a crime, but unless the officers had Superman x-ray vision, they were unaware of it until after that had tackled and detained gray for the "criminal" offense of running when he saw the police.

The media loons, and of course the cop-haters, race-baiters, rioting protesters, and the various malcontents immediately leapt upon this 'his spine was severed' verbiage. Why? Because it's sounds so bad. Much, much worse than 'spinal injury' or 'injury to the spine', or even 'severe injury to the spine. But, what is meant by that 'horrendous' verbiage?

Would it be 'obvious' Gray's spine was 'severed'? That depends on what is meant by "severed", and IF that is actually the correct word being used. 'Severed' as in the bones of the spine, cut by a sword, as something ISIS might perpetrate? Or 'severed' as in the spinal cord, or some portion of the spinal cord? That could and would make a tremendous difference in what any non-Doctor-type person (like say... I dunno... LEOs) might know, or be aware of.

We have seen NO medical reports so far, AFAIK, clarifying the issue. For NOW, it's just a horrid term being used by both the "If it bleeds, it leads" crowd, and those low-lifes using it as a 'justification' to riot. One would certainly HOPE that NO LEO would jump on that bandwagon with those two groups of scumbags. IF they do so, and it's found that the verbiage is incorrect, they should turn in their badge & gun immediately, as they have NO business being a cop. Period.

The guy died of a severed spine, AND a crushed larynx. If that's what it is, that's what it is. Why do you have a problem with it being called specifically what the injury was?

For now, all there is in front of folks is speculation. Until details and specifics are known, that's ALL it is.

As also noted earlier, we heard the same rampant rhetoric being spewed in both the Trayvon Martin AND Michael Brown cases by those unwilling and too-quick to 'jump on the bandwagon and jump the shark'. And in both instances, specifically because of the race of the two individuals.

Those same folks were proven wrong once the facts came out.

It's frequently opined by some on INGO that LEO's are too quick to make a 'rash judgment', 'too quick on the trigger'. This would apply to voices as well as to firearms.

Until details and specifics are known, judgment will be reserved, as it should be by anyone, particularly LEO's who purport to do the job.

Brown got what he was looking for.... he was a criminal. Martin, we don't know as the only person that knows the truth is the guy who was killed him/defended himself.

In this case we see the officers dragging Gray into the wagon. Gray appears to be moaning in pain.... call me crazy, but that would probably be a good time to have EMS check him out. But no, they put him in the back of the wagon, and don't even belt the guy in. Then in the course of taking Gray to jail, the wagon stops THREE times... the first to place him in leg irons, the second time we don't know, and the third time to pick up another prisoner. When he finally gets to jail, then somebody wises up and gets him to a hospital.

I don't know about you, but something stinks. This goes two ways for me.... incompetence or criminal (unless someone wants to pass off that maybe the prisoner from the 3rd stop did something to Gray)

 

[17 squirrel]

Nothing wrong with running*** SC has said that on more than one occasion..
Maybe he was running while wearing a tye-dyed shirt and had some pine air fresheners hanging off the bill of his baseball cap ?. Certainly that would be a reason to stop and do a terry & a curb stomp.










Color purple where needed.

 

[bonkers1919]

Actually this and similar instances are my visions of the future of our country.

 

[hoosierdoc]

Does anyone have a link to the autopsy report? Oh yeah, no report for another month yet. We may as well decide for ourselves then...

i hate to break it to all the brilliant INGO neurosurgeons, but you can injure your cervical spine and die simply from falling over. A police chase/tackle is easily enough to do it depending on how you land. These injuries often progress due to swelling and hemorrhage and a normal initial exam can change dramatically over a few hours.

sometimes bad things just plain happen. Not sure what happened here, but I'm guessing no unwitnessed beating or whatever happened in the van. Autopsy said no broken bones and only finding was a spinal cord injury.

The mayor said it "isn't clear" if having a knife is a crime. In Maryland, the law seems very clear that it is. Why can't they just be honest? Seems the mayor is counting on more votes from citizens than police officers.

that's a lot of cases for a 25 year old.

What we know: According to court documents CNN obtained, there were more than 20 criminal court cases in Maryland against Gray, and five of those cases were still active at the time of his death.

Maryland law makes it illegal to "wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind" -- including switchblades -- "concealed on or about the person."
What we don't know: It's not clear that simply having a knife is a crime, said Baltimore Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake. "It is not necessarily probable cause to chase someone. So, we still have questions," she said.

This is something new and I'd like to see the autopsy report. Could have slammed into a seat or floor during a stop or the alleged "rough ride" without seat belt.

At some point, he suffered a severe spinal cord injury. His family said his voice box was crushed and his neck snapped before he slipped into a coma and died.