Getting Right with God, vs Man

[redneckmedic]

A conversation between me and my (Bleeding Heart Lib) Step-mom yesterday sparked an interesting debate in my head. She started talking about the "Praying Robber", a news story that I hadn't heard of before. Anyhow her take was how wonderful it is that he has turned his life around and is now a man of God, and how hopefully he will get a extremely reduced sentence; like only probation.

My rebuttal to her is that is complete no matter how sincere his relationship with God is now, "Getting Right with God, is NOT the same as Getting Right with Man."; he still owes society his due!

Or does he?

[Beau]

Damn right he does. I wonder what the percentage is of convicts who tell the parole board members about how they found Jesus. They are now changed men and are ready to go back into society.

I wonder what percentage of the previous percentage end up right back in prison.

[Annie]

Yes. If you swiped my stuff and then found Jesus, you better ask him to help you find my stuff - because you still owe me.

[Armed & Christian]

If he is truly repentent, he will want to make amends for his crime.

While we may be forgiven our transgressions, there are still temporal penalties and side effects resultant from our actions.

[redneckpastor]

Got to live with the choices you make even as a Christian, OT is full of illustrations of that!
good debate though, which from the outside one was thinking with emotions and the other with logic.

[Bigum1969]

Originally Posted by Annie

Yes. If you swiped my stuff and then found Jesus, you better ask him to help you find my stuff - because you still owe me.

[Agent 007]

.

[Fargo]

Originally Posted by redneckmedic

A conversation between me and my (Bleeding Heart Lib) Step-mom yesterday sparked an interesting debate in my head. She started talking about the "Praying Robber", a news story that I hadn't heard of before. Anyhow her take was how wonderful it is that he has turned his life around and is now a man of God, and how hopefully he will get a extremely reduced sentence; like only probation.

My rebuttal to her is that is complete no matter how sincere his relationship with God is now, "Getting Right with God, is NOT the same as Getting Right with Man."; he still owes society his due!

Or does he?

I think there is another distinction that needs to be made here and that is God vs the individual vs the state.

Virtues like charity and mercy are proper to God and the individual, it is virtuous for a person to sometimes forgo that which he is owed in strict justice.

However, when it comes to society/the state, justice is the proper virtue otherwise the state is giving away that which is not its to give.

It is just like state "charity" ie: welfare. Taxes are taken by force by those who have not worked for them and then distributed to those who need but have not earned them. There is no charity in the taxpayer; he hasn't freely given. There is no merit in the government which has taken that which does not belong to it. There is often no thankfulness in the recipient precisely because the recipient recognizes that he is not the benefit of true charity, but rather of government force.

Contrast that with a person freely giving to a food pantry. There is merit in his free sacrifice of charity. There is merit in the volunteer workers who help get the food to the poor. There is genuine thankfulness from the recipient who recognizes that people didn't HAVE TO HELP, but did because they cared about him as a human being.

If a victim of a crime chooses not to seek restitution out of mercy to the perpetrator, that can be a very virtuous action and can help the perp recognize the error of his ways. However, if the state does so, the state has given what is not it own to give and has violated justice; ultimately encouraging the perpetrator to offend again.

Best,

Joe

[bft161]

Well my belief is that you may have made amends with God while robbing this store but what puzzles me is that it take a store clerk who he was robbing to convince him to turn to God for guidance.. Now I am assuming that this was his first time robbing a store (Probably not) but if it was he still broke the law and he still has to pay for doing that...Due the crime due the time...He is lucky that the store clerk wasnt armed...

[hotfarmboy1]

Originally Posted by bft161

Well my belief is that you may have made amends with God while robbing this store but what puzzles me is that it take a store clerk who he was robbing to convince him to turn to God for guidance.. Now I am assuming that this was his first time robbing a store (Probably not) but if it was he still broke the law and he still has to pay for doing that...Due the crime due the time...He is lucky that the store clerk wasnt armed...

same here, I'm never good at putting my feelings and thoughts into words sometimes. But this sums it up for me.