Question for LEO's, Dispatchers, 911 Operators - MWAG Calls?

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  • tbhausen

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    Many times here I've seen stories told that go something like this:

    I was open-carrying at (insert legal-to-OC place). When I left there was a (insert law enforcement agency) vehicle outside". Not sure if someone made a MWAG call on me..."

    Question is, if a person is going about his or her business normally while OC'ing in a place where it's legal to do so, what's the normal response to MWAG calls? Surely, 911 operators (or whomever takes such calls) know the laws well enough to ask relevant questions such as "Where exactly is the person?" or "Is he (or she) acting strangely or threatening anyone?" Do they, however, actually inform callers "People are allowed to do that--just call us if he (or she) actually causes any trouble."

    On my scanner feed (limited only to routine dispatch transmissions--no tactical, investigations, narcotics, etc.) the only time I hear about guns is when police are dispatched after laws seem to have been broken. So it's pretty logical to conclude these MWAG calls seldom result in police swooping in to check out "average Joe OC'er". I'm just curious to know how concerned citizens (many, no doubt, who mean well but are ignorant of the law and have had their prejudices and perceptions shaped by the media) are handled when making these reports.
     
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    VUPDblue

    Silencers Have NEVER Been Illegal !
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    when I have been dispatched on such runs I ask the dispatcher to ask the caller if the person is doing anything other than simply carrying a gun and if it is holstered.
     

    chezuki

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    when I have been dispatched on such runs I ask the dispatcher to ask the caller if the person is doing anything other than simply carrying a gun and if it is holstered.

    You still show up and curb stomp either way though, right?

    Just because it's holstered doesn't mean it's going to stay holstered. :draw:
     

    meegz

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    You forget, every cop carries 4 things now. A gun, a badge, a radio and a cell phone. I work with an EMS service (so we're open 24/7) and I work nights...the cop(s) who work nights occasionally stop by an B.S. with us, and we see them on a lot of our runs as well. I see them get text messages and phone calls very frequently, followed by 'Gotta run, I have to actually do some work tonight. *sigh*' That also doesn't account for the radio traffic they receive of 'randomunit, TX dispatch'. Just because you don't hear it on your scanner, doesn't mean they aren't getting the calls for it.

    Take this how you will, I'm not a cop, but I spend quite a lot of time around them, and get to hear a LOT of their radio traffic. Just what I've witnessed.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Surely, 911 operators (or whomever takes such calls) know the laws well enough to ask relevant questions

    ...and you would be wrong. There are very little in the way of training requirements for a dispatcher, and none of them involve any knowledge of the law. While I'm sure it varies from county to county, the only training your average dispatcher gets is on the computer dispatch system, IDACS/NCIC if they are going to have access to that system, and EMD (which is where they train you to walk people through first aid steps over the phone).

    Dispatchers have no more knowledge of the law than the general population. Some know more than others, but like VUPD said often its up to the cop to ask the dispatcher to ask relevant questions. Even then the dispatcher often has already hung up with the complainant.
     

    wally05

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    ...and you would be wrong. There are very little in the way of training requirements for a dispatcher, and none of them involve any knowledge of the law. While I'm sure it varies from county to county, the only training your average dispatcher gets is on the computer dispatch system, IDACS/NCIC if they are going to have access to that system, and EMD (which is where they train you to walk people through first aid steps over the phone).

    Dispatchers have no more knowledge of the law than the general population. Some know more than others, but like VUPD said often its up to the cop to ask the dispatcher to ask relevant questions. Even then the dispatcher often has already hung up with the complainant.

    +1 A major issue with our city dispatch is that they tend to hang up much too quickly, so you lose that direct connection. MWAG happen occasionally in my area, but it's mostly rifles or something of the sort. And no, dispatchers do not really receive any training in law.
     

    AJBB87

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    I don't know about other districts but in Southeast on lates it usually goes like this:

    "Charles 321...Charles 323...Charles three two one....Charles three two three...person with a gun....1100 south...3800 east...caller states a white male in a tank top and khaki shorts is walking northbound on Sherman with a gun. No further information..."

    [At which point both units buy the call and hope it's one of the finer members here on INGO.]

    ...."both units at midnight forty-seven"
     

    DRob

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    "Surely, 911 operators (or whomever takes such calls) know the laws well enough to ask relevant questions"........NOT!

    The concept of "screening calls" left IPD (pre IMPD) many years ago when they began to hire non-sworn personnel as dispatchers. I distinctly remember the Chief of Police issuing a directive that "if the caller demands the police, you send the police". Dispatchers were trained to operate the equipment and little else.
     

    tbhausen

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    "Surely, 911 operators (or whomever takes such calls) know the laws well enough to ask relevant questions"........NOT!

    The concept of "screening calls" left IPD (pre IMPD) many years ago when they began to hire non-sworn personnel as dispatchers. I distinctly remember the Chief of Police issuing a directive that "if the caller demands the police, you send the police". Dispatchers were trained to operate the equipment and little else.

    Let's hope officers "train" dispatchers by letting them know what wastes their time ;) Resources aren't unlimited, you know... Plus, "average Joe OC'er" would probably rather just go about his business without wasting said officer's time, as well.

    How the hell do we educate the public? The media damn sure won't help very often.
     

    sloughfoot

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    Police dispatchers take calls. They input the data into the computer. They send an available Officer to investigate.

    Dispatchers can know the law, but so what. They cannot investigate what is truly happening.

    Dispatchers can ask questions, but so what. They cannot close out a run by asking questions on the phone. Only an Officer making an investigation can close a run.

    There would be all kinds of terminations going on if dispatchers took it upon themselves to take calls, investigate those calls, and close out the complaint/run by determining from behind their computer that it was a bogus or unsubstantiated call.

    I know many on this forum won't understand, but many Police Officers would storm into the comms room and demand the head of any dispatcher who presumes to be able to do the Police Officer's job. I know I would have when I was being sent on complaints.

    Besides, it is a boring shift if you can't curb stomp some poor sap just going about his business with that 44 magnum in a thigh holster.
     

    freekforge

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    yeah dispatchers dont get any legal training i was asked to be a dispatcher while in High school but turned it down because i didnt want to deal with stupid people and mwag calls
     

    Compatriot G

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    I have several friends that are dispatchers. While they may know the law, they don't get to screen calls. One time, a dispatcher friend did that on a MWAG call at our local Wal-Mart. He asked the caller several questions and determined the MWAG was most likely an OC'er minding his own business. He didn't send an officer to investigate. One of the other dispatchers reported to him to the supervisor. He didn't get in serious trouble, but was told not to do that again.
     

    netsecurity

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    I OC'd exactly one time. After a trip to the range, I stopped at a card store on the way home. Two police cars were parked outside when I left. I wondered if something was going on so I looked at them as I drove past in curiousity. One was staring right at me. The look on his face (and the fact that he was looking at me at all) seemed to tell the whole story. He kimda had that "sorry buddy, I had to do it" look when we made eye contact.

    Oh, I did stop at a grocery store before that to get fresh flowers, and had a 5yo girl in the line in front of me stare at my hip for five solid minutes without blinking.

    I haven't OC'd since, because the pressure is insane around here. Of course, this was just after Newtown. But still, police OC, and people don't freak out about their gun. Why does the lack of a uniform make people fearful? Off duty cops should OC to see what happens.
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    Let's hope officers "train" dispatchers by letting them know what wastes their time

    At a smaller department you might get away with it. For IMPD the dispatchers don't even work for us, they still fall under county. From personal experience I can tell you complaining about the "MWAG minding his own business" gets you nowhere. Its simpler to educate the caller, but so many of them are from Mr. and Mrs. Anonymous.

    I used to call anonymous calls "When you care enough to do the very least". If its important enough to call about, at least leave some contact info because a complaint from a known party is much more significant, legally speaking, than an uncorroborated anonymous tip.

    Sorry, drifting off topic. Anyway, everything gets dispatched and its primarily for liability reasons. No one wants to get sued because they failed to send an officer. So, you end up having to talk to the lady who says VooDoo priests are taking garbage from her trash can, transporting it to Houston, TX, and then killing her by making a snake grow inside of her brain. (Referred to Houston PD, as that's where the crime is occurring. You're welcome whoever took the call from the lady asking for the Houston PD VooDoo Detective's Bureau.)
     

    ATM

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    ...Oh, I did stop at a grocery store before that to get fresh flowers, and had a 5yo girl in the line in front of me stare at my hip for five solid minutes without blinking...

    :scared:

    She was obviously contemplating the havoc she was going to wreak after she disarmed you.

    You're lucky to even be alive.
     

    tbhausen

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    At a smaller department you might get away with it. For IMPD the dispatchers don't even work for us, they still fall under county. From personal experience I can tell you complaining about the "MWAG minding his own business" gets you nowhere. Its simpler to educate the caller, but so many of them are from Mr. and Mrs. Anonymous.

    I used to call anonymous calls "When you care enough to do the very least". If its important enough to call about, at least leave some contact info because a complaint from a known party is much more significant, legally speaking, than an uncorroborated anonymous tip.

    Sorry, drifting off topic. Anyway, everything gets dispatched and its primarily for liability reasons. No one wants to get sued because they failed to send an officer. So, you end up having to talk to the lady who says VooDoo priests are taking garbage from her trash can, transporting it to Houston, TX, and then killing her by making a snake grow inside of her brain. (Referred to Houston PD, as that's where the crime is occurring. You're welcome whoever took the call from the lady asking for the Houston PD VooDoo Detective's Bureau.)

    Repped. Great contribution to the discussion, sir! Thank you.
     
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