Montana Ambush Case Goes to Court

[Kirk Freeman]

In Montana a man allegedly set an ambush in his house. A German Turk exchange student was hit several times with a shotgun after entering into the man's garage.

I know this upsets some here, but your home is not a free fire zone.

BBC News - German student Diren Dede killed in 'castle doctrine' case

 

[patience0830]

What was the kid doing in his garage if he wasn't there to rob it? If the homeowner and his wife had kept their yaps shut about setting a trap the story'd be different. Not sure who I pity more in this story. Definitely three people made bad decisions. Looks like at least two outta three get to pay for their choices.


Seems equitable in a twisted sort of way.

 

[ModernGunner]

Obviously, a sympathetic piece for the deceased. No problem there.

However, when addressing the issue of the student's criminality, the single line was "It is unclear what the teenager was doing inside in the garage."

I'll reserve judgement until after all the evidence from both sides is presented.

However, here's an EASY one, and something all parents should be pounding into the heads of their kids: Stay out of people's houses & garages unless authorized by the owner, and incidents of this type will NOT happen.

 

[ryknoll3]

In Montana a man allegedly set an ambush in his house. A German Turk exchange student was hit several times with a shotgun after entering into the man's garage.

I know this upsets some here, but your home is not a free fire zone.

BBC News - German student Diren Dede killed in 'castle doctrine' case

It should be... along with your unoccupied car. Stay out of other people's belongings and you have NOTHING to fear.

 

[spec4]

Notice the pol who wants the law repealed is a Dem, just sayin.

 

[churchmouse]

They used to hang horse thieves.
Just saying.....

 

[OWGEM]

Home owners admit they left garage door open and planted a purse as bait, dare we say "premeditated"?

 

[churchmouse]

Home owners admit they left garage door open and planted a purse as bait, dare we say "premeditated"?

Bait or not....idiot came in with bad intent.....to set an ambush is not the way to deal with this either.

 

[KLB]

They used to hang horse thieves.
Just saying.....

Used to be that no one would question a shooting like this either.

Seems pretty dumb all around though. Shooting without warning, means he had no idea who was in his garage. Setting a "trap" to be able to shoot a thief is also dumb.

 

[brotherbill3]

Home owners admit they left garage door open and planted a purse as bait, dare we say "premeditated"?

At the very least it appears to remove the "forcible" part of the felony
... which then appears to remove the allowance for the use of deadly force

when I saw this info (earlier) - it struck me as 2 wrongs - just making more wrongs. ...

 

[Six Forty-Two]

Wouldn't firing a shotgun multiple times blindly into a garage damage more property than a petty thief might take? Did he really think his life was in danger?

 

[Buchanan3514]

I agree with the 'castle doctrine' how I interpret it. That is to say if I feel threatened in my home, I have a right to protect myself by means up to and including the use of deadly force. That being said, what happened here doesn't seem to have anything to do with a perceived physical threat to the homeowner. Taking unaimed shots into the dark at an unidentified intruder is irresponsible to say the least. The admission of the the homeowner that a trap was intentionally set makes it even worse. It's misplaced logic like this that forces the rest of us to have to fight that much harder for our rights to keep our firearms.

 

[JRPLANE]

Whats wrong with these people? I was taught NEVER going into someones house, garage, backyard. Its called respect for there property. If you go to someones property you walk right up to the front door and knock, if they don't answer you leave, not poke around.

I feel sorry for the boys family, but he was not there to straighten out the garage.

I feel sorry for the home owner for not keeping his mouth shut.

Definitley a lose/lose situation.

 

[Birds Away]

If the facts are as reported then this is murder. Seems plain and simple to me.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Eh, I'm on the fence with this one. He didn't trick the guy into coming into the garage, he provided an opportunity to commit a crime. If I leave my door to the garage up while mowing the grass, I'm exposing things a lot more valuable than a purse to thievery, so while its not my intent to lure anyone in I'm also providing an opportunity for an opportunistic thief. No one disputes entering the garage is wrong and that there is almost certainly criminal intent there, the question is solely is that reason to use deadly force absent other circumstances. For that, the devil is going to be in the details, and I'm not basing my opinion off just what's in the news article.

 

[churchmouse]

Stay the hell out of and off of peoples property. Just stay off. Period. No fine line of the law, no manipulation of details, no dead body's. Just stay the hell off.....period.
There is absolutely no reason to just wander up into a garage/house/yard/etc.

 

[Movealongmovealong]

There is common law protection for people attempting to help someone. If he saw that the purse was left in the garage and was simply walking up to say, "Hey, you seemed to have left your purse out here" then that is a protected action. Just like walking up and knocking on someone's door if their roof is on fire. Or putting someone's car in park if it's rolling and unattended. Knocking on someone's door is not illegal.

This is exactly why I caution people against being hot-headed itchy-triggerfingered types. You might get a free room at the pen for a couple decades for your troubles.

This reminds me a lot of the case decades ago of the Japanese exchange student who was killed for walking up to someone's garage. Extremely similar. A result of that? Ultimately it was a significant factor in the passing of the AWB. I'm not kidding at all. Look it up.

 

[churchmouse]

There is common law protection for people attempting to help someone. If he saw that the purse was left in the garage and was simply walking up to say, "Hey, you seemed to have left your purse out here" then that is a protected action. Just like walking up and knocking on someone's door if their roof is on fire. Or putting someone's car in park if it's rolling and unattended. Knocking on someone's door is not illegal.

This is exactly why I caution people against being hot-headed itchy-triggerfingered types. You might get a free room at the pen for a couple decades for your troubles.

This reminds me a lot of the case decades ago of the Japanese exchange student who was killed for walking up to someone's garage. Extremely similar. A result of that? Ultimately it was a significant factor in the passing of the AWB. I'm not kidding at all. Look it up.

I see this but my post was there is no reason to "Wander" onto/into someones place. Big difference.
I would kick in a door if a house was on fire If I thought someone was inside. Big difference. Huge difference.
When I was 16 I attempted to stop a car rolling down a driveway towards a busy street. Caught the car....reached in side and attempted to put into park. I does not work like that. I pushed off to not get hit when the car went into the street and fell under the car. Got ran over by the front wheel and the car got smacked anyway. Screw that, never again.....

 

[Hoosier8]

The Castle Doctrine often states that you can defend yourself, your house, and curtilage from harm Curtilage are the surrounding buildings and possessions.

The key here is that if it goes to a Jury trial, anything could happen.

IMHO, he should have called the police first since he was already laying in wait. I don't know the particulars of this case.

 

[HoughMade]

Regardless of what the law is, you have to ask yourself a moral question- if there is no physical threat to me or another person, how am I justified in taking a life?

Yes, I know all about the legal presumptions about intent of a criminal....but presumptions are just that, and do not seem to reflect reality in this case. Was there a reasonable, actual threat to a person? If not, again, regardless of the law, how is this killing right​?

How about we stop asking: "what can I get away with?" and start asking "what is the right thing to do?"