This is What Happens When You Bring a Gun to a Fist Fight

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  • sopwith21

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 8, 2014
    77
    8
    Indianapolis
    Most of the typical loud, out-of-shape gunshop commandos I've seen couldn't run ten feet without falling over from oxygen deprivation and - if denied access to their gun - they probably couldn't fight their way out of a wet paper bag. Nevertheless, they live in the world of self delusion in which every criminal is in mortal fear of their inherent badness.

    I think this guy has it right in this short article. I'd like to know what you think.
     

    hooky

    Grandmaster
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    24   0   0
    Mar 4, 2011
    7,032
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    Central Indiana
    I think he falls into the very category that he accuses a gun guy of falling into, too much reliance on one thing with a disdain for other options.
     

    IndyDave1776

    Grandmaster
    Emeritus
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    12   0   0
    Jan 12, 2012
    27,286
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    I would argue that the fundamental problem is not the adult version of rock/paper/scissors morphed into fist/knife/gun but rather that too many gun owners believe they are protected by a magic death ray rather than that they are in possession of a tool which, if used properly, greatly improves their chances of surviving an attack. The same could be said for fitness and skill in fighting with empty hands, knives, swords, or blunt instruments. It all comes down to realistic expectations and the unfortunate truth that the attacker has the element of surprise on his side as he knows when he is going to launch the attack and you don't.

    Where this affects me personally, I am reaching that point in my life where my reflexes are getting slower and, no, I am not in any shape to play ninja. The best remedy I have found is more focus on situational awareness with the understanding that the first step in countering any attack is to realize that it is happening. From that point there are a variety of responses and all I can say is that depending on your condition, awareness, and preparedness, your mileage may vary (greatly).
     

    sopwith21

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 8, 2014
    77
    8
    Indianapolis
    I'm in the same boat. One finger on my left hand is painfully arthritic, which means I've had to take left hand punches out of my training routine and replace it with a ridge hand, an elbow, or something else that I've not relied on before.

    FWIW, I approach self defense in layers for every combat distance. I work out 3x per wk for an hour, plus 10 min/day on martial arts (and 30 min once per week), and about 30 min/wk on knives. I go to the range every 2 wks or so. That's not that much. There are guys at the range who outshoot me every time, and there are guys at the gym who could whip me with one hand. But I'm not trying to be the best and I'm not trying to be 20 years old again. I'm just trying to be a little better than I was yesterday.

    But I truly do believe that the gunshop commandos are living in denial. The one thing you need to perform any activity under pressure is lung capacity. Even drawing, aiming and firing while moving demands wind, and the only wind I see from these guys is hot air coming from their mouth. I think most of these guys are just kidding themselves.
     

    chezuki

    Human
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    48   0   0
    Mar 18, 2009
    34,151
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    Behind Bars
    I'm in the same boat. One finger on my left hand is painfully arthritic, which means I've had to take left hand punches out of my training routine and replace it with a ridge hand, an elbow, or something else that I've not relied on before.

    FWIW, I approach self defense in layers for every combat distance. I work out 3x per wk for an hour, plus 10 min/day on martial arts (and 30 min once per week), and about 30 min/wk on knives. I go to the range every 2 wks or so. That's not that much. There are guys at the range who outshoot me every time, and there are guys at the gym who could whip me with one hand. But I'm not trying to be the best and I'm not trying to be 20 years old again. I'm just trying to be a little better than I was yesterday.

    But I truly do believe that the gunshop commandos are living in denial. The one thing you need to perform any activity under pressure is lung capacity. Even drawing, aiming and firing while moving demands wind, and the only wind I see from these guys is hot air coming from their mouth. I think most of these guys are just kidding themselves.

    Just an honest FYI, you're coming across a lot like the blowhard "gunshop commandos" you describe.
     

    96firephoenix

    Master
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    2   0   0
    Apr 15, 2010
    2,700
    38
    Indianapolis, IN
    I have to agree with the article, with a couple caveats:

    I lean very heavily on my gun and a good situational awareness when it comes to my self defence. I know that my strengths favor not being involved in a fistfight. I also lean pretty heavily on my wrestling skills. I'm not at all a state champ wrestler who knows all the right moves, but I'm huge and I can wrap about 85% of everyone else up and hold them down.

    Not paying attention and not knowing how to at least put up a seme-good fight because you carry a gun is tantamount to not buying insurance and not wearing a seatbelt because your car has airbags. It doesn't matter how quickly they deploy or what their stopping power is, if you get into a situation where you need them, a gun or airbags can only do so much to help you.
     

    Denny347

    Grandmaster
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    21   0   0
    Mar 18, 2008
    13,415
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    Napganistan
    This needs repeated.



    You can choose to be proficient with one tool or many. Sometimes you can choose which tool to use and sometimes the choice is made for you. What if your primary tool is unavailable? Are you then helpless? Food for thought.
     

    cce1302

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 26, 2008
    3,397
    48
    Back down south
    So he compares the below average gun owner with an above average martial artist and the martial artist wins. Big deal.

    We could compare the below average martial artist with an above average shooter and write as useful an "article" in the exact reverse.
     

    Disposable Heart

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 99.6%
    246   1   1
    Apr 18, 2008
    5,805
    99
    Greenfield, IN
    The second time I was mugged, we were actually rolling around on the pavement, grappling and trying to stab. Had I not worked out a little bit, ran a lot and eaten healthy in college, he would have likely killed me. Something to bear in mind. The attacker was a physically strong guy, played basketball ALOT and was high.

    Denny hit it on the head: WE are the weapons system. It's not a movie out there: We don't have time to draw, yell "fill yer hand you sum*&%$%!". If we are jumped, we have to react with what we have, whether it's gun, hand or blade. Becoming gun heavy, knife heavy or hand heavy, one is doing themselves a HUGE disfavor. A gun is useless when you are in a head lock and need both hands to get out. A hand is useless when it's been slammed with a ball bat or shot. A knife is useless when they are 10 yards away and shooting at you.

    With the few times I've been jumped, all I can say is that it isn't fun. A life and death struggle with a guy armed with a knife when you are armed with a knife wasn't fun. Exhaling hard over and over, trying to wince out that last little bit to shove your blade into his shoulder isn't fun. Martial arts might have helped, yes. A gun, no. He was on me fast as heck.

    I like to take a que from a tanker friend of mine: Pop smoke, run like hell, find a defilade, hull down and wait with your cannon loaded with sabot. :D
     

    cosermann

    Grandmaster
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    14   0   0
    Aug 15, 2008
    8,372
    113
    Article excerpt: "Here’s the sad truth, most guys who preach guns do not spend time on the mat, do not hone their reflexes and reactions so they are razor sharp, are not in the best shape of their lives. They will lose hand to hand. But, they believe in guns."

    Reworked and just as true: "Here's the sad truth, most guys who preach [martial arts] do not spend time on the [range, and] do not hone their [ability to rapidly put shots on target under stress.] They will lose [beyond arm's reach.] But, they believe in [martial arts.]"

    Yup, there's no one answer. Be the weapon. Carry your tools. Give yourself options.

    And don't put all your eggs into one basket if you can help it.

    The author sounds as married to his martial arts as the straw man constructed in the article is to his guns.
     
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