Disarmed - -1 for LEO

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  • minx

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 31, 2011
    304
    18
    SW Indiana
    Painful to watch.


    [video]http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aae_1429463600[/video]


    What I take away: Video is good. Have the laws written down and know them. Dont be a bigger fool than those over extending their authority.
     
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    jblomenberg16

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    67   0   0
    Mar 13, 2008
    9,920
    63
    Southern Indiana
    Yep tough to watch. I mixed on how I feel about it. On the one hand I hate that a man's freedom is being compromised. On the other hand, he was potentially breaking a law (speeding) and if he had no other criminal record or other reasons to be defensive, perhaps complying with the officer could have been better for both in the long run. The guy was definitely getting pissed and from an officer's view point I could see where they could be uncomfortable.

    I think we've all be through that scenario in our minds. Do we get a cool cop that doesn't push the issue? Do we get one that asks us to step out of the vehicle and momentarily takes our legal carry weapon to help protect himself from potential attack? If he does, is he professional about it, or does he jack boot us on the ground and create a physical situation?

    Personally I think that I'd just go with his request, publically confirm I did not agree but would comply, and hope the situation went as smooth as possible. Why escalate things?
     

    1911ly

    Grandmaster
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    6   0   0
    Dec 11, 2011
    13,419
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    South Bend
    If I can make a cops job easier by complying with his wishes on the subject of carrying a gun I will. Fighting with a cop over anything to do with a gun is just going to make things worse. And most likely end poorly. I could not watch the end of the video. I am sure I know how it ended. And I know how it started. Poor decisions on both sides.
     

    Woobie

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 19, 2014
    7,197
    63
    Losantville
    Plenty of stupidity to go around. The first cops request was probably unnecessary. His supervisor should have told him that as well. They also issued some citations they shouldn't have, just to be jerks and make him go back and fight it. All of that accounts for 15% of the stupid. The other 85% is on the loser in the drivers seat. He probably sped on purpose, just to start the confrontation. The cops request was reasonable, so just go with it. He pokes the bear as much as he can, and wins his stupid prize. Good for him.
     

    bwframe

    Loneranger
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    93   0   0
    Feb 11, 2008
    38,170
    113
    Btown Rural
    I don't agree with the cops confiscating weapons.
    How many folks are those smart assed kids gonna win over to our side by taunting and cussing at the cops though?
     

    Sonney

    Marksman
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Nov 24, 2012
    192
    16
    I think I would inform that I had a gun in the car. When he asked me to step out I would not have had a problem with that also. The Cop told him why he wanted him to step out. It would have been more problems with this young person acting like he did. Just because you have the right doesn't alway end right. Take this situation Cop get mad pulls his gun, boy move Cop shoots. Boy was right, but he is still dead, Cop was wrong, but he is still alive and could get out of it.

    Sonny
     

    Woobie

    Grandmaster
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    0   0   0
    Dec 19, 2014
    7,197
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    Losantville
    The only thing you ever have to say to a cop is: "Am I being detained?" You do not need to comply with his orders or answer his questions.
     

    ashby koss

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    18   0   0
    Jan 24, 2013
    1,168
    48
    Connersville
    Yes sir and no sir goes a long way. I would have kept the weapon to myself.

    I'm not saying this ONLY about people of the law enforcement careers, but nearly any career. As humans a little "ego stroking" won't ever hurt. In my opinion there are gray areas of officer legal knowledge and officer safety, hell there's gray areas in civilian legal knowledge and safety as well. No matter where you are in knowing your rights and wrongs, and how black or white your stance is, if an officer is in his "gray" area holding your ground will not end well. It's far better to comply and "move on" and use the legal system after the fact to correct an issue, whether that is a lawsuit, a letter to the chief, or a visit to the chief (town size dependent).

    When the officer is well in the wrong, resistance in my opinion is needed. BUT resistance can be as simple as questioning. If there's no clear and logical reason why requested to do something from an officer and he cannot explain it (ie "it would make me feel safer").. then that would start moving towards me asking for another officer on scene.

    Recently, I've seen a larger and wider gap in the chasm between "officers" and "civilians". Officers use to be seen as civilians pledging to protect the local laws. Which is really what they are. It would do well for everyone to remember that an officers first duty to himself and family in my opinion is to go home at the end of the day. Sadly, as with all batches of apples, there's always some bad ones. I could go on and on, but there needs to be a better transparency and communications on both sides of the Civilian & Officer to lessen this gap, and treat both better.
     

    actaeon277

    Grandmaster
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    4   0   0
    Nov 20, 2011
    92,860
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    Merrillville
    If I can make a cops job easier by complying with his wishes on the subject of carrying a gun I will. Fighting with a cop over anything to do with a gun is just going to make things worse. And most likely end poorly. I could not watch the end of the video. I am sure I know how it ended. And I know how it started. Poor decisions on both sides.

    How does it make his job easier?
    You give him a gun, then he can rest because there's no way you can have another.
    No. Even if you give him the gun, he's SUPPOSED to assume you are still armed. He should be treating EVERYONE as if they are armed.
    When they assume people don't have guns, sooner or later they (officers) might get harmed.

    Then, there's the fact that some officers are not "gun guys".
    Pointing the weapon while trying to figure out how to "unload" it.
    Field stripping the gun, and losing a part.
    etc.
     

    1911ly

    Grandmaster
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    6   0   0
    Dec 11, 2011
    13,419
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    South Bend
    How does it make his job easier?
    You give him a gun, then he can rest because there's no way you can have another.
    No. Even if you give him the gun, he's SUPPOSED to assume you are still armed. He should be treating EVERYONE as if they are armed.
    When they assume people don't have guns, sooner or later they (officers) might get harmed.

    Then, there's the fact that some officers are not "gun guys".
    Pointing the weapon while trying to figure out how to "unload" it.
    Field stripping the gun, and losing a part.
    etc.


    For one, he's not arguing with you over the gun anymore. I believe in complying with an officer. If I feel the officer is wrong I will take the matter up with his superior. Not escalate the in the field. Where it puts me and the officer at risk for harm.
     

    Droogie

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 28, 2015
    59
    8
    Zionsville
    Everyone wants to go home at the end of the day. The "margin of error" that police have while doing their job is small enough. Doing things that make the margin of error smaller reduces the chances of everyone going home.

    Too many of the shooting in the news are a result of people doing stupid things that make it harder for the officer not to shoot them.
     

    Drail

    Master
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    0   0   0
    Oct 13, 2008
    2,542
    48
    Bloomington
    I want to go home at the end of my day too but I don't insist on holding everybody's gun that I talk to "for my safety". How would a police officer feel if every citizen wanted to hold HIS gun while having a conversation (for their safety) and he was required to do that? "Here, I'll hold yours and you can hold mine." Everybody gotta feel "safe", right? Safety is an illusion. Illusions should not trump the Bill of Rights and lawmakers need to stop legislating only so someone can "feel safe". That's the kind of logic that brought us the T.S.A.
     
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    1911ly

    Grandmaster
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    Dec 11, 2011
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    South Bend
    I want to go home at the end of my day too but I don't insist on holding everybody's gun that I talk to "for my safety". How would an officer feel if every citizen wanted to hold HIS gun while having a conversation (for their safety). Everybody gotta feel "safe", right? Safety is an illusion.

    Are you a cop?? If not, how can you even justify your comment. :dunno: It doesn't make the slightest sense. A cop handing you his gun for your safety. Yeah, rite.
     

    ckcollins2003

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Apr 29, 2011
    1,449
    48
    Muncie
    I'm all for complying, but an officer not feeling safe doesn't give him the right to confiscate your firearm and violate your civil rights. If he wants me to step out, fine, but if the reason he wants me to step out is so that he can take my gun then to hell with him and his requests. I will always treat an officer with respect as long as I am treated with the same respect, I think everyone is the same way. This officer was not respectful with this mans civil rights so I wouldn't expect the guy to be respectful back. "Officer safety" is a b.s. excuse. If you don't feel safe, call in another car to keep an eye on them while you walk back to run the license. It's that simple.
     

    Booya

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    44   0   0
    Aug 26, 2010
    1,316
    48
    Fort Fun
    Why wouldn't the driver just get out and lock the doors? The officer should be happy that the weapon is no longer in reach and the driver didn't have to give up his property? The worst inconvenience was just having to get out. I suspect this officer would not have let it go at that point, he was getting that gun no matter what and his crew was on his side.

    I think everyone had a hand in this situation getting so far out of hand. To me it's all about the words you choose. Words and tone tend to dictate a situation, and no one here was using the correct ones. As stated above though, as a citizen you know how this is going to end, why fight it on the side of the road. The guy knew he wasn't going to win the argument and he didn't, why bother to continue. He knew if he had it out in the open and he acknowledged it the chances of this stop going exactly as it did were pretty high.
     

    HoughMade

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 24, 2012
    35,614
    149
    Valparaiso
    +1 for teaching me some important information.

    When an officer asks me to step out of the vehicle, I can put any condition I want to on my compliance...or just not comply at all. Thanks for the insight!

    Bad on the cops for making a big deal out of the gun. Good on them for not escalating unnecessarily.
     
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