I've gotta go to Communist occupied IL friday.

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  • redsuperduty

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    I have a business trip to IL friday, I understand my LTCH is no good in that wasteland. Can I still take a pistol if it is secured in a case unloaded? I'm driving a p/u truck so it can't be in the trunk. Can ammo be in the case with the gun? What do you guys usually do?
     

    DeadeyeChrista'sdad

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    You have my sympathies. My brother in law hates it. Good 'ol city state Chicago. Making stupid laws for the rest of the state. Interestingly, the bangers IN Chicago seem to pay NO HEED to their draconian laws.... Hmmmmm......
     

    NIFT

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    I have a business trip to IL friday, I understand my LTCH is no good in that wasteland. Can I still take a pistol if it is secured in a case unloaded? I'm driving a p/u truck so it can't be in the trunk. Can ammo be in the case with the gun? What do you guys usually do?

    Answers to your two questions: No, and No.
    If you are just driving through Illlinois, you may transport your gun, unloaded and locked in a case, inaccessible, etc., but if you stop somewhere (other than for food, gas, and so on) you violate Illinois law, and, I believe, it is a felony.
     
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    redsuperduty

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    Answers to your two questions: No, and No.
    If you are just driving through Illlinois, you may transport your gun, unloaded and locked in a case, inaccessible, etc., but if you stop somewhere (other than for food, gas, and so on) you violate Illinois law, and, I believe, it is a felony.

    WOW, IL sucks worse than I thought it did. I'm sure gonna feel nekkid friday!
     

    melensdad

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    Answers to your two questions: No, and No.
    If you are just driving through Illlinois, you may transport your gun, unloaded and locked in a case, inaccessible, etc., but if you stop somewhere (other than for food, gas, and so on) you violate Illinois law, and, I believe, it is a felony.

    You are actually wrong. In fact you are very very wrong. Your mistake is to assume that the federal law is the applicable law but Illinois does have its own transport law that can be applied.

    Here is a link to a public document (government publication) http://www.isp.state.il.us/docs/ptfire.pdf

    The applicable section from the above link:
    How can I legally transport a firearm on my person or in my vehicle?

    Three statutory codes regulate the possession, transfer, and transportation of firearms — the Criminal Code, the Wildlife Code, and the Firearm Owner’s Identification Act.

    Under Unlawful Use of Weapons (UUW) in the Criminal Code, persons who have been issued a valid FOID card may transport a firearm anywhere in their vehicle or on their person as long as the firearm is unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container. Firearms that are not immediately accessible or are broken down in a non-functioning state may also be carried or transported under the Criminal Code.

    The Wildlife Code, however, is more restrictive. It requires that all firearms transported in or on any vehicle be unloaded and in a case.

    Because of this, it is recommended that, in order to be in compliance with all statutes, all firearms be transported:
    1. Unloaded and,
    2. Enclosed in a case, and
    3. By persons who have a valid FOID card.

    Unless specifically exempted from UUW, a person commits a Class 4 Felony if he or she violates the UUW law in the Criminal Code (i.e., unlawfully carries on their person or illegally transports a firearm in a vehicle) AND one or more of the following aggravating factors apply:

    (1) The firearm possessed was uncased, loaded, and immediately accessible at the time of the offense;
    (2) The firearm possessed was uncased, unloaded, and the ammunition for the weapon was immediatelyaccessible at the time of the offense;
    (3) Does not have a valid FOID card;
    (4) Was previously adjudicated of a felony as a juvenile;
    (5) Was engaged in a misdemeanor violation of the Cannabis Control Act or the Controlled Substances Act;
    (6) Is a member of a street gang;
    (7) Has had an order of protection against them in the last two years;
    (8 ) Was engaged in the commission or attempted commission of a misdemeanor involving the use of violence against another person or the property of another; or
    (9) Is under 21 years of age and in possession of a handgun, unless the person is engaged in hunting activities under the Wildlife Code.

    What constitutes a legal “case”?

    The Criminal Code refers to a “case, firearm carrying box, or other container; however, the Wildlife Code is more specific, defining case as “a container specifically designed for the purpose of housing a gun or bow and arrow device which completely encloses such gun or bow and arrow device by being zipped, snapped, buckled, tied, or otherwise fastened with no portion of the gun or bow and arrow device exposed.”

    How do the differences in these two laws affect me for the purposes of the Unlawful Use of Weapons law?

    It is recommended that persons transport their firearms only unloaded and in a case in order to be fully compliant with all statutes. A firearm transported in a container other than a case while engaged in activities covered by the Wildlife Code could subject an individual to a charge of Class B Misdemeanor under the Wildlife Code but would not be considered Unlawful Use of Weapons if the container were a “firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container” as provided in the Criminal Code.

    HOWEVER you must also be aware of CITY CODES that may be more restrictive.

    FWIW, I travel into ILLINOIS almost every day, usually twice a day, and I travel with a gun (or two) in the car when I cross over the state line. I do not want to become a test case in their court system, I do my best to comply with the laws and I try to be wary of restrictive city codes like the Chicago codes.
     

    ABolt243

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    From the Illinois State Police site, scroll down about 2/3, Non-resident transport is addressed.

    A recent court case in IL found that a center console constituted a "case" under Illinois Statutes, but as a non-res, I wouldn't push it. Not all LEO's are aware of the court case. (People of Illinois vs. Diggens) If I were you, I'd be unloaded, enclosed in a case and under/behind the seat or in the glove box. According to the site, ammo can be in the same case, even in a magazine as long as the mag is NOT in the gun.

    We're working on changing the law here, but the recent gubernatorial election won by the "entitlement crowd" in Chicago, E. St. Louis and Cairo have made it a little more difficult.
     

    NIFT

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    I am not aware that a non-resident of Illinois can procure the required Illinois FOID card, but, perhaps, it is possible.

    Regardless, the "safe passage" provision of the Firearm Owners Protection Act (FOPA) of 1986 does provide that persons traveling from one place to another cannot be incarcerated for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas) and the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, in a locked container.

    Consequently, I will continue to recommend that non-residents of Illinois not take handguns into Illinois, unless just "passing through."
     
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    radar8756

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    1. Unloaded and,
    2. Enclosed in a case, and
    3. By persons who have a valid FOID card.


    I looked on the FOID application page and they are only available to IL residents .... but on the FOID FAQ page it had this about Non-Resident's

    Firearm Owner's Frequently Asked Questions

    If a non-resident is coming to Illinois to hunt and would like to bring their firearm, how do they legally transport it?

    Non- residents must be legally eligible to possess or acquire firearms and ammunition in their state of residence. It is recommended that, in order to be in compliance with all statutes, non-residents transport all firearms:
    1. Unloaded, and
    2. Enclosed in a case, and
    3. Not immediately accessible or broken down in a nonfunctioning state.

    Is it legal to have ammunition in the case with the firearm?
    Yes, so long as the firearm is unloaded and properly enclosed in a case.

    I have a friend/relative who has a "conceal and carry" permit issued in the state in which they reside. Is the permit recognized in Illinois?
    No. Non-residents are subject to Illinois law, restrictions, and penalties, and should be familiar with them if the non-resident plans to bring a firearm into the state of Illinois.
     

    melensdad

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    ...I will continue to recommend that non-residents of Illinois not take guns into Illinois...
    NIFT, being a non-resident you don't need an ILL FOID card and in fact you cannot attain one. Further, the FOPA act does NOT apply to the situation posed by the original poster in the scenario he proposes. He's not traveling through the state, he is traveling to the state, and not staying in the state (as in staying in a hotel room). That said it would be difficult to use the FOPA law for much of his travel.

    As for your recommendation, I understand what you are saying but I've consulted lawyers and they suggest that your recommendation is simply wrong. Even the ISRA suggests that you are wrong.
     

    NIFT

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    I looked on the FOID application page and they are only available to IL residents .... but on the FOID FAQ page it had this about Non-Resident's

    Firearm Owner's Frequently Asked Questions

    I still cannot recommend any non-resident of Illinois take a handgun into Illinois, unless just "passing through." Illinois is about the last place I would ever want to be in "gun trouble."
     

    melensdad

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    I still cannot recommend any non-resident of Illinois take a handgun into Illinois, unless just "passing through." Illinois is about the last place I would ever want to be in "gun trouble."

    So let me understand this completely.

    First you state that its not legal to do something then you are provided with ample evidence to prove you wrong.

    Then you make your recommendations based on your feelings about the laws despite the fact that case law in Illinois has upheld the concept of "container carry" in the state of Illinois, and despite the fact that the Illinois State Rifle Association agrees that it is legal for non-residents to transport handguns in Illinois (unloaded in a proper case) and despite the fact that Illinois own websites suggest that it is legal for non-residents to transport in the aforementioned manner.

    What did I miss? . . . oh wait, I forgot the part where you told the OP that if he followed the law he was committing a felony.
     

    NIFT

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    So let me understand this completely.

    First you state that its not legal to do something then you are provided with ample evidence to prove you wrong.

    Then you make your recommendations based on your feelings about the laws despite the fact that case law in Illinois has upheld the concept of "container carry" in the state of Illinois, and despite the fact that the Illinois State Rifle Association agrees that it is legal for non-residents to transport handguns in Illinois (unloaded in a proper case) and despite the fact that Illinois own websites suggest that it is legal for non-residents to transport in the aforementioned manner.

    What did I miss? . . . oh wait, I forgot the part where you told the OP that if he followed the law he was committing a felony.

    Wow, you sure are demonstrating a lot of hostility, but I suggest you take it elsewhere, because I will not get in a fight with you. Cheers!
     

    melensdad

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    No sir, no hostility at all. Just stating facts and pointing out that you are providing poor advice even after you've been shown by more than one person to be wrong. Man up and admit you don't know what you are talking about, apologize to the OP and be done with it.
     

    Prometheus

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    So let me understand this completely.

    First you state that its not legal to do something then you are provided with ample evidence to prove you wrong.

    Then you make your recommendations based on your feelings about the laws despite the fact that case law in Illinois has upheld the concept of "container carry" in the state of Illinois, and despite the fact that the Illinois State Rifle Association agrees that it is legal for non-residents to transport handguns in Illinois (unloaded in a proper case) and despite the fact that Illinois own websites suggest that it is legal for non-residents to transport in the aforementioned manner.

    What did I miss? . . . oh wait, I forgot the part where you told the OP that if he followed the law he was committing a felony.
    He is an NRA certified instructor, that makes his feelings trump the law and reality.

    If he feels it, that's how it is... :rolleyes:

    This is the sort of thing that makes people laugh at the training side of the nra. I hate to turn this into a bash the nra fest, but between donating to harry ried and other gun grabbers and now turning out this 'caliber' of instructor... exactly what is pro-gun about any facet of the NRA? :laugh:

    Melen, you've got a solid grasp on this situation. I've got nothing to add to a series of good posts. +1 sir.
     

    Hoosierdood

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    In my somewhat limited understanding of IL law, here is what I am seeing...

    We have already established that FOPA is not applicable to this situation because the OP is not traveling through the state. So we must look to IL state law to find the proper answer. melensdad pointed out state law that deals with transporting a firearm. However, state law requires a FOID card, which out-of-staters cannot obtain. Subsequently, radar8756 brought up a valid point about non-residents coming to IL to hunt, and that state law addresses that issue.

    My problem is that the OP is not traveling to IL to hunt, so I propose that the non-res provision would not apply. He does not have a FOID card, so he could not transport a firearm in accordance with state law.

    Bottom line is that you may get by with it, and obviously many have before. If you actually get stopped, you may get hassled, or even arrested. It may have to go to court where you may or may not win your case. If it was me, I might take my chances depending where exactly I was going and don't give anyone a reason to pull you over.

    As to whether it is legal...that seems to be a grey area.
     

    melensdad

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    In my somewhat limited understanding of IL law, here is what I am seeing...

    We have already established that FOPA is not applicable to this situation because the OP is not traveling through the state. So we must look to IL state law to find the proper answer. melensdad pointed out state law that deals with transporting a firearm. However, state law requires a FOID card, which out-of-staters cannot obtain.
    ...
    He does not have a FOID card, so he could not transport a firearm in accordance with state law.

    HOWEVER, the Illinois law also states that NON-RESIDENTS do not need a FOID so non-residents are exempt from the FOID card issue. NON-RESIDENTS may legally travel INSIDE Illinois with firearms if they follow the ILLINOIS laws (which I posted a link to and which I posted QA info for) without any need for a FOID card, as per the Illinois state laws.

    Lock them in a proper container, unloaded.

    I use a "GUNVAULT" brand 'microvault' when I transport guns into the state. Proper container is required. People need to understand the laws and sometimes that requires a good deal of research into various aspects of the law.

    What seems to elude people here is that there is no need to follow the FEDERAL safe passage laws and also the fact that Illinois has much better transport laws than our own state! So follow the ILLINOIS LAW and you are good to go.
     

    redsuperduty

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    Thank you for all the input guys!
    I called the IL state police firearms div. and talked to the guy that wrote the faq. sheet on the ISP website.
    He told me I can bring a handgun if it is in a zip up case or better, mag can be in the same case with ammo in it but not in the gun. Gun must not have any rounds in it at all. I asked if I could have his name incase a less informed officer pulls me over, he said ''sure'' (I left his name on my desk at work, but will take it with me)....... He is the manager of the firearm and firearm training div. at the state police. I feel better after talking with him, very nice guy and was willing to answer any question I had. +1 for this officer at the IL State police dept.
    I'll be taking my gun with me now.:yesway:
     
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