HD scenario, what to do: Your door gets kicked down

[jsharmon7]

Originally Posted by 40calPUNISHER

For those guys that shoot first, what if it is the fire department? Your house or apt is on fire, you hear them knock down your door. You are woken up to the loud crash of them coming through your door. You are dazed from being suddenly awoke. Tired, dazed and confused; you start blasting the firemen?

+1

Or, do a Google search on the frequency of police conducting dynamic entry raids on the wrong house; it happens quite regularly. Does anyone think that if they shoot a police officer conducting a wrongful raid on your home that you won't be prosecuted; self defense or otherwise? I doubt things will turn out well for you in spite of the fact that the police made a mistake and raided the wrong house. Or, how about your teenager losing their house key and sneaking in their window late at night to avoid being caught breaking curfew? As someone else mentioned, utilize the OODA loop before you go Rambo on an intruder.

[Jay]

For anyone that would shoot when they have not identified their target...well they have no business with a gun and should probably be shot themselves.

As for what I would do in this situation. Your in my house now

I kinda figured that maturity would show itself before long....... advocating shooting someone for poor judgement.......... now there's a solution........

[indytechnerd]

Originally Posted by 40calPUNISHER

For those guys that shoot first, what if it is the fire department? Your house or apt is on fire, you hear them knock down your door. You are woken up to the loud crash of them coming through your door. You are dazed from being suddenly awoke....(snip)

There are 7 smoke detectors in my house, when one activates, they all do. We tested this about a week ago when my 5yr old said he was afraid of a fire starting. If my house is burning, the firemen won't be the ones waking me up. Besides, my dog, er alarm, checks the perimeter at least 3x a night, I'm far from a heavy sleeper.

Originally Posted by jsharmon7

Or, do a Google search on the frequency of police conducting dynamic entry raids on the wrong house; it happens quite regularly..(snip)..As someone else mentioned, utilize the OODA loop before you go Rambo on an intruder.

The thing about dynamic entries is the dozen guys yelling "POLICE, POLICE, POLICE" when they come through the door. I'd call that identification. Of course, in this situation, the same thing happens. My dog, er alarm, would have announced their arrival from the window as they stacked up to enter. She's not going to do any harm, and a half package of hotdogs will put her out of the fight for some time, but she is a good noisemaker.

Originally Posted by Josh Smith

OODA

Observe: Is this the police or is it a burglary? If police, are they hostile?

Orient: I should already be in a position to fire; if circumstances change, then change with them.

Decide: Fire, surrender or retreat?

Act: Do the action I've decided upon.

How long does this take to run through? 3sec, 10sec?

Could there be hell to pay if LE gets some numbers on an address transposed, yes. Is it likely that LE will get some numbers wrong and show up at my place, no. Since we're in hypothetical mode, we can pick one situation rather than another. If my door gets kicked in at 3am, if I hear 1 distressed sound from my dog who'd be in the room, if I notice 1 or 2 shadows rather than a dozen, it's game on.

Re: Not identifying a target...
When someone mentions shooting, I'd like to think we've already identified the fact that there is a threat. I think there are some general assumptions we have to go with. No one needs to post step by step plans.
1. wake up
2. find glasses
3. put glasses on
4. reach under mattress
5. grab pistol
6. grab 2nd magazine
....
These are all givens in my book.
Kinda reminds me of that scene in My Cousin Vinnie when they're sleeping in the hunting cabin and the screech owl wakes him up and he runs out the front door and empties the .357 into the night...

YouTube - My Cousin Vinny - "What The **** Is...

[Annie]

Originally Posted by Jay

those that don't call will have to deal with what they find.

Translation: Do NOT throw surprise parties.

[IndyBeerman]

Originally Posted by 40calPUNISHER

For those guys that shoot first, what if it is the fire department? Your house or apt is on fire, you hear them knock down your door. You are woken up to the loud crash of them coming through your door. You are dazed from being suddenly awoke. Tired, dazed and confused; you start blasting the firemen? OR what if you kids hear the noise and run out into the hallway to see what it was. You could have talked to your kids about this and told them to stay in thier rooms, but kids getting woken up by this would also be dazed and confused and prolly come running to mommy and daddy's room. BOOM! BOOM! It was just the scared kids coming into your room... I'd put a little more thought into it.

Well that's why there's a motion sensor light in the hallway, illuminates anything/one there, not hard to see who it is from my vanatge point, but darn near impossible to see me because of the blinding light.

Far as firemen, that's what battery backup chained smoke detectors are for, 9 in the house, 1 goes off they all go off, 2 are even in separate areas of the attic to warn of of a attic fire and 1 in the crawl space.

Kids, we don't have any, our dogs are our kids and they stay in the bedroom with us at nights and they sleep as light as I do.

So I'm not just going to wake up and start blasting, I've thought it over discussed it with the wife and even had a false alarm that reinforced it.
Plus don't have to worry about family or friends coming over and in, they call first!

[foxxie02]

if you have kids i agree the sitaution is different than if single or just you and spouse. plus have you ever seen an entrance made by swat or similar teams, minimum of 7 guys with lights on storming house yelling police or us marshall etc... and if the fire department is kicking in the door I think the flashing lights coming through all the windows and the sirens might just give them away..just a thought. Plus the old adage of being judge by 12 rather than carried by 6.. just a thougth from an ex reserve police officer!

[Josh Smith]

Originally Posted by indytechnerd

How long does this take to run through? 3sec, 10sec?

Depends. How fast can you think?

If it tells you anything, this thought process was discovered by a fighter pilot. He never lost - he learned to get inside the enemy's OODA loop.

It's just being aware of your thought process, and having the ability to get into another's head.

Josh <><

[NDhunter]

Seeing as my Dad is a cop and on the SOT team, I sure hope he isn't the one in someone sight's who doesn't identify their target. Okay, they raided the wrong house. Your neighbor is cooking meth in his basement and the informant has the wrong address by one house. It is an honest mistake in an attempt to make the world, your city, and your neighborhood safer.

So what about this, you open fire on this party. Okay here, SHTF. You've opened up on probably a group of at least 3, maybe up to 10 people armed with superior weapons to yours own (subguns, rifles, shotguns). What happens now? Sorry, but your toast. Your gonna be more full of lead than toys from China.

Even if your using castle doctrine okay, but I don't see any confrontation where you are killed as a good one?

[JosephR]

I honestly have no reason to believe the police/SWAT/ATF would ever need to make a dynamic entry on my home and therefore, I would only assume the worst if anyone ever did kick down my door. I'd try to make as positive of an ID as I could but who knows what I'd have time to do if I was in fear of my life.

I feel safe enough to assume that I'd hear a knock and it would be peaceful, even if my neighbors called saying they saw me walking around with gun cases, etc. outside to and from my car...

[waloidian]

just a follow up that this does happen, and is something to think about at least once: Rogue Minutemen leader held in fatal home invasion - CNN.com