British self defense documentary. Is this your future?

[Scratcher]

The link below is to another older thread on this sub forum. I'm a Brit who is now a permanent US resident seeking citizenship in this great country. Please take an hour out of your life to watch this and post your thoughts. I would very much appreciate your thoughts.

The documentary covers the case of Tony Martin,the farmer who fatally shot a teenager who burgled his farmhouse

'I don't regret shooting dead teenage burglar', says remorseless farmer Tony Martin | Mail Online

https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2526307#post2526307

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Tag for later viewing. I'm sure it is worth it.

I met a few Brits at a 3gun match in Kentucky a couple months ago and they were in awe of the hardware so many Americans have. They were pretty good shots too. TJ and I tried to squad with them but it didn't work out.

 

[jve153]

it is sad that the man who attempted to rob him got less time than he did. on a positive note, he is still alive. even with this outcome, it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by six. as bad as our system is, at least it is not that backwards

 

[jimmyw86]

So if Mr. Martin would have shot and killed Fearon too, what would have happend then?

 

[Scratcher]

So if Mr. Martin would have shot and killed Fearon too, what would have happend then?

He would probably have been sentenced to more time.

 

[jimmyw86]

Cause I always hear, if your gonna shoot them, make sure its between the eyes because you'll get in less trouble.

 

[Mr Evilwrench]

Cause I always hear, if your gonna shoot them, make sure its between the eyes because you'll get in less trouble.

That's here. There it would be considered murder. Seriously. Just as if you'd plotted out a scheme to demise someone intentionally and with premeditation, hunted him down, abducted him, tortured him to death slowly and painfully, and peed on his corpse afterward. Self defense is specifically illegal there.

 

[Scratcher]

Self defense is specifically illegal there.

Self defense in the UK is defined by using necessary force to restrain. Striking the assailant could earn you a charge of assault. Yep...Its messed up............ as you say here

 

[jimmyw86]

So if the person actually shot you in the arm, you can't shoot him back without getting jail time?

 

[mrjarrell]

Don't forget Munir Hussain, too. He also got railroaded by the British courts for self defence, too. Happens more than we might think. Mr. Martin certainly got hosed. Britain isn't quite so great these days.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...vesty_of_justice_in_not_so_great_britain.html

 

[Scratcher]

So if the person actually shot you in the arm, you can't shoot him back without getting jail time?

Yep

 

[Doug]

In Britain, and, if Democrats continue getting elected, soon, here, your right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness is replaced by the right to scream, bleed, and die.

 

[NapalmFTW]

+1 from another Brit.

However as I understand it... Self defence is "reasonable force" in the UK. It's defining reasonable that is the problem.

If the robber/burglar etc. has a baseball bat and you shoot him or chop his head off with a machete you might be in trouble... probably.

I'm glad I got out when I did, frankly. I'm now a resident here too and biding my time to become a USC. I am very happy to be in the US, despite its flaws - no country is perfect.

Just got my IN DL today so the next step for me is my LTCH then a gun to go with it

 

[Scratcher]

+1 from another Brit.

However as I understand it... Self defence is "reasonable force" in the UK. It's defining reasonable that is the problem.

If the robber/burglar etc. has a baseball bat and you shoot him or chop his head off with a machete you might be in trouble... probably.

I'm glad I got out when I did, frankly. I'm now a resident here too and biding my time to become a USC. I am very happy to be in the US, despite its flaws - no country is perfect.

Just got my IN DL today so the next step for me is my LTCH then a gun to go with it

"Reasonable force" that's the term I was looking for.

 

[Doug]

+1 from another Brit.

However as I understand it... Self defence is "reasonable force" in the UK. It's defining reasonable that is the problem.

If the robber/burglar etc. has a baseball bat and you shoot him or chop his head off with a machete you might be in trouble... probably.

I'm glad I got out when I did, frankly. I'm now a resident here too and biding my time to become a USC. I am very happy to be in the US, despite its flaws - no country is perfect.

Just got my IN DL today so the next step for me is my LTCH then a gun to go with it

Right.
"Reasonable force"
You can't kill him until AFTER he kills you.

A wise man once said:
"I will give him an option to flee. If he does not, he is simply a problem to be solved. I will solve the problem. When he is no longer a threat, he will, once again, become a human being and I will call an ambulance and pray for his survival."
Thus let it be.

 

[NIFT]

The article called Tony Martin an "eccentric vigilante."
Yeesh!

I suppose that all of "us" in the US are categorized worse than Jack the Ripper!

 

[cobber]

Anthony Burgess was prescient when he wrote A Clockwork Orange.

How does this compare to Australia or Canada?

 

[Scratcher]

The article called Tony Martin an "eccentric vigilante."
Yeesh!

There are quite a few little remarks like that throughout the documentary. That's what I hate about the predominantly leftist media. They always have to editorialize what is purported to be an objective analysis. Sometimes its so subtle it almost goes unnoticed.

I suppose that all of "us" in the US are categorized worse than Jack the Ripper!

Before I came to America I had all sorts of preconceived assumptions based upon British/European media [mis]representation. Once I was here for a few months my impressions changed

 

[smokingman]

I have a few British friends.They agree they are no longer citizens,but subjects.It is far worse there than most even realize.With new laws aimed at anything that could even harm someone.They are now trying to limit private ownership of knives and even baseball bats.

These have already been in stores in the UK for over a year.

BBC NEWS | UK | Magazine | How do 'anti-stab' knives work?

A quote from the article,so you can get a sense of how they feel about the "subjects".
"This is especially true of household products which are freely available to the very young and very old, and used by people who may be clumsy, short tempered, drunk or mentally or physically unwell. Most people fit into one or more of these categories at some time in their lives."

 

[NIFT]

I think this encapsules the UK mindset toward self-defense

BBC News “Panorama”
February 8, 2007​

Interview with Tony McNulty, Minister for Police and Security, UK​

VINE: And the government wants more of us to be as involved as those Birmingham women. In fact a leaked Home Office initiative centred on the slogan: "Don?t moan, take action, it's your street too." But that caused confusion among people who say: "Well how far are we expected to go when we see violent or antisocial behaviour?"
You see something happening in the street, do you step in?

TONY McNULTY MP
Minister for Police and Security
The general line must be to get in touch with the authorities straightaway and make sure that, if things are as bad as you paint, that the police will be there as quickly as they can.

VINE: You see a young man looking aggressive, shouting at an old woman, what do you do? You retreat and ring the police?

McNULTY: I think you should in the first instance, it may well be that simply shouting at them, blowing your horn or whatever else deters them and they go away.

VINE: He's now hitting her and the police haven't come. What do you do then?

McNULTY: The same ... the same.

VINE: You still wait?

McNULTY: You must get back to the police, try some distractive activities, whatever else.

VINE: What, jump up and down?

McNULTY: But I would say ... well sometimes that may well work.

VINE: I'm confused here because we're told that your line on this is that people should stop moaning and tackle antisocial behaviour themselves: "It's your street too."

McNULTY: But "Don't moan, take action" is about wider communities fully embracing the respect agenda, fully embracing all the elements at their disposal through antisocial behaviour legislation and taking action through those official, formal channels.