I stagger my rounds...wait, what?

[ftwphilly]

Lately I've come across a few people who alternate ammunition in their carry magazines...

JHP-FMJ-JHP-FMJ-JHP-FMJ-JHP-FMJ....etc.

They all basically say it's because if they had to use their pistol it would be easier to pass off to a potential jury of how they just wanted to protect themselves as opposed to being stacked with JHP's and be labeled as someone with intent to kill. How does this logic work in a self defense shooting scenario? Does anyone else do this? Comments, thoughts?

 

[iChokePeople]

Lately I've come across a few people who alternate ammunition in their carry magazines...

JHP-FMJ-JHP-FMJ-JHP-FMJ-JHP-FMJ....etc.

They all basically say it's because if they had to use their pistol I would be easier to pass off to a potential jury of how they just wanted to protect themselves as opposed to being stacked with JHP's and be labeled as someone with intent to kill. How does this logic work in a self defense shooting scenario? Does anyone else do this? Comments, thoughts?

Logic? Where?

 

[fullmetaljesus]

Indiana is a stand your ground state. If you find yourself in a dire need to protect yourself and you end up putting the person down. You will not see a jury if you can make a good enough case to the LEOS and if you do, i doubt any one would care if you were shooting JHP or FMJ

 

[williamsburg]

i carry jhp. ammo well it's like a hallmark card when you care you only send the best.

 

[ftwphilly]

I was trying to wrap my head around this too. I couldn't really come to a logical conclusion. To each their own I guess.

 

[Colt556]

How would you know what order you needed to use the ammo in, FMJ 1st of JHP? I've heard ppl say use the same type ammo the local cops use but I'm no expert by any means. I have tried several different types of SD ammo but it has all been JHP. If you had to shoot someone with a FMJ there is also the possiblity of over penetration and wounding or killing a family member or innocent bystander. This is JMHO though.

 

[Constructionist]

I've heard the argument from folks who do this, that it's so they have alternating penetration/stopping power every other round ("don't want a down-filled coat to plug my jhp") but with modern SD ammo, I don't really see the need for it.

 

[armedindy]

theyre just cheap asses who shot half of their jhps at the range and didnt want to buy any more, so to fill up the mag they staggered it.....at least ive knwon of one person to do it cuz of that

 

[threefiftyfour]

I have considered doing this with my HD shotgun, but I have not.

 

[ftwphilly]

Yeah, the whole penetration/over penetration I can understand. That being said, if that were to happen the same logic could be spun against you.

Civil Case:

"Your Honor, FMJ's are more deadly then JHP's! They penetrate further into the body and in this case went through my cracked out meth head client causing two holes from which he bled from as opposed to the one hole if the defendant had chosen to only use JHP's.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Why not alternate between brands as well? That way when you have to use your gun you can be pretty sure at least one of the rounds will do the job. With 20 rounds in my XDm it might cost a lot, but when it comes to my safety.... you just can't put a price on that. To the jury " I shot him 20 times because I wasn't sure which bullet was going to be effective. I was just covering my bases."

 

[kludge]

Use of firearm = deadly force. Type of projectile is moot.

If you don't have "reasonable" belief that deadly force is necessary, you're going to jail regardless of the ammo. The corollary is also true. If you are justified in using deadly force, the type of ammunition, or the caliber of the gun, whether it's a .22 Short or a .460 Weatherby, won't - and shouldn't - matter.

 

[lovemachine]

Lately I've come across a few people who alternate ammunition in their carry magazines...

JHP-FMJ-JHP-FMJ-JHP-FMJ-JHP-FMJ....etc.

They all basically say it's because if they had to use their pistol it would be easier to pass off to a potential jury of how they just wanted to protect themselves as opposed to being stacked with JHP's and be labeled as someone with intent to kill. How does this logic work in a self defense shooting scenario? Does anyone else do this? Comments, thoughts?

IMO, anyone that carries actual defensive rounds in their carry gun has done their research, and has thought of the possible risk of harming an innocent bystander that was behind the bad guy because of over penetration.

I think a jury would be more merciful towards a guy that has done his research.

 

[eldirector]

I don't intend to get in front of a jury in the first place. Indiana's self-defense laws are pretty clear. If you stay within them, the DA's office has no reason to file charges. Caliber and bullet type are only relevant if it was a bad shoot.

 

[Sylvain]

Use of firearm = deadly force. Type of projectile is moot.

If you don't have "reasonable" belief that deadly force is necessary, you're going to jail regardless of the ammo. The corollary is also true. If you are justified in using deadly force, the type of ammunition, or the caliber of the gun, whether it's a .22 Short or a .460 Weatherby, won't - and shouldn't - matter.

That's true, if you can legally use deadly force it doesn't matter what caliber or type of round you used to kill your attacker.
What matters is the innocent victims you could kill or wound.
I dont want to use a FMJ round that I know will go thru my attacker and will still have enough energy to kill an innocent victim standing behind the wall in the next room.
You are liable for every single round fired, no matter if they hit your target, that you can legally shoot, or the person living next door.
By using JHP rounds I know I reduce the risk of hurting an innocent victim.

 

[dusterboy49]

Why do this.
If someone is going to sue they will sue no matter what you do.

 

[cwillour]

I have considered doing this with my HD shotgun, but I have not.

Same thing here w/ the shotgun (staggered starting w/ a slug as the 3rd round), but I've never heard of calling for FMJs in a SD pistol. I did have a instructor once (10-15 years ago) encourage loading all quality JHPs starting w/ the 3rd or 4th rounds if you use MagSafes (or similar) ammo as your primary load. His logic was that if the fight required the additional shots, you may well need ammo capable of penetrating a light barrier. I never went w/ MagSafes, but at least this made some sense.

To me it seems worse to say that you selected your rounds to soften the jury than to just say you selected your ammunition based upon your perceptions of the effectiveness of the round and the threats you felt most likely to face.

 

[PokerMack1973]

i carry jhp. ammo well it's like a hallmark card when you care you only send the best.

Well put.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

This is 1980's gun culture/politics/fear that has somehow survived into the internet age of the new millenium.

The sources that I have found show that there used to be several states that do not allow or frown upon the use of JHP rounds. I do believe NJ is still this way and only LEO may use JHP rounds but I'm not 100%. I'll look it up in a minute.

ANYWAY some of the staggering myth is the mindset of having a round for every purpose. The guys that buy expensive guns just so they have them and never really shoot LOVE trying to have the answer for everything that they don't need or will never face. I know a guy who staggers his AR15 mags with "armor piercing" and TAP just in case.

Personally I have a mag of polymer tipped JHPs loaded and spare mags with FMJ for my daily carry. FMJ will give you more "punching power" to go through barriers than JHPs so I figure why NOT have them.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Found it:

N.J. Rev. Stat § 2C:39-1y. New Jersey bans the possession and use of hollowpoint ammunition,

Gun laws in New Jersey - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia