Inappropriate OC Lite???

[ntrngr]

I've had my LTCH for just over two weeks. I usually CC my pea shooter (pocket carry, its a little 25 acp) but the other day I OC'd it under my belt, no jacket over it. Kind of an OWB affair. I guess this would be OC lite? I was wearing all black and it was difficult to spot. Its a little chrome 25 acp autoloader smaller than your hand. We were going out and ended up at a church fish fry.

My father in law just happened to notice. "Whats this?!", he said. I thought he just wanted to know what the gun was. He knows own and shoot a lot. I told him, "Its a 25 auto." Then he got pissy with me. He said, "You don't need that here!" I asked, "Oh? You're sure of that?" I told him that I'm "legal" but it didn't matter. When I asked him what the big deal was he said people might not like it and leave. When I asked him why that was, he said he just might leave. Understand, my father in law is by no means antigun. Frankly, I was a bit shaken by the exchange. I did go back take it off my belt and left it in the car. Had I been wearing trousers instead of fairly tight jeans, I would have just dropped it in my pocket.

I guess the moral of the story is that A) watch out for unsuspected sheeple and B) CC is always an option if you're in question.

Was it inappropriate? I didn't feel that it was. I would have felt that full open carry of my C9 or Mod 59 in a full outside-the-belt holster would have been kind of inappropriate but my little 25 tucked on the inside of my belt? Don't know. I'm a novice at this point with this subject.

Opinions? Comments?

 

[Biggdogg]

Was the Fish Fry actually AT the church (on church property), or was it being held somewhere else and just being sponsored by the church?
If it was AT the church, does the church have a school or a daycare on site?

 

[AFA1CY]

Some people get the idea that churchs are a safe and peaceful environment. And while they shold be, this is not real life. Maybe in a past era but not now.

 

[fg12351]

Was the Fish Fry actually AT the church (on church property), or was it being held somewhere else and just being sponsored by the church?
If it was AT the church, does the church have a school or a daycare on site?

Good question...is it therefore illegal?..my church has child care during services as well as children's programs throughout the week. Is it therefore illegal to carry there? (I haven't yet).

 

[Biggdogg]

Good question...is it therefore illegal?..my church has child care during services as well as children's programs throughout the week. Is it therefore illegal to carry there? (I haven't yet).

If your church has day care/school services there, then yes, it is ilegal to carry...Check out the State Code (Indiana Code Title 35; Artricle 47) for more detail. Indiana Code TITLE 35, Article 47 Table of Contents

 

[ntrngr]

Was the Fish Fry actually AT the church (on church property), or was it being held somewhere else and just being sponsored by the church?
If it was AT the church, does the church have a school or a daycare on site?

No legal problems exist. No school or daycare. The carrying part was definately legal. The reaction is what puzzled me more than anything.

 

[Biggdogg]

Some people get the idea that churchs are a safe and peaceful environment. And while they shold be, this is not real life. Maybe in a past era but not now.

If there were no legal issues as you stated, then AFA1CY's post is absolutely on point. Maybe you need to re-educate your F-I-L on some of the horrible things that have both happened, AND been prevented, at churches in the last few years. The fact that it's a curch has nothing to do with what evildoers want to accomplish. Maybe refer him to the church ordeal in Colorado that was prevented BECAUSE they had armed members of the congregation that were providing security.

 

[ntrngr]

If there were no legal issues as you stated, then AFA1CY's post is absolutely on point. Maybe you need to re-educate your F-I-L on some of the horrible things that have both happened, AND been prevented, at churches in the last few years. The fact that it's a curch has nothing to do with what evildoers want to accomplish. Maybe refer him to the church ordeal in Colorado that was prevented BECAUSE they had armed members of the congregation that were providing security.

Thanks! Anybody got any incidents that come to mind?

 

[Boilers]

I like the advice that "you can't UNtell people".

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Good question...is it therefore illegal?..my church has child care during services as well as children's programs throughout the week. Is it therefore illegal to carry there? (I haven't yet).

Child-care during the services is a whole other ball-game than the church operating any kind of school/licensed day-care.

The school/preschool/daycare (even though it's a private institution) is where the real sticky wicket is.

-J-

 

[theturtle06]

Thanks! Anybody got any incidents that come to mind?

I can't say this with 100% confidence, but for some reason I remember hearing the church shooting in Colorado 2-3 years ago was stopped by a citizen who was carrying a weapon.

edit - according to this (Gunman killed after opening fire at church - CNN.com) CNN article it was an armed security staff member.

 

[henktermaat]

Sounds like your FIL was just being a sheep. My wife had the same reaction when I started carrying in church. "You don't need it there" was her knee-jerk reaction.

I always love to explain it in terms of a fire extinguisher or insurance. Basically, no one can say you don't "need" those things, and a gun is exactly the same. You just don't know if you will need it or not, but even a church isn't foolish enough to drop their insurance or cease to have fire extinguishers.

I will even say, in reference to my gun - "this is my fire extinguisher." If they have an ounce of logic and sense, they'll get the picture.

People are afraid and don't want to admit (to themselves) that a peaceful church would ever need armed defense - but the news and facts of the last few years plainly state otherwise.

It's a sticky thing because it's your Father In Law - I mean, you wanna stay on good terms with that guy If the conversation comes up naturally in the future, definitely explain that a church needs defense just like any other location, and have ready the news stories referenced above by fellow INGO'ers.

If the conversation DOESN'T come up naturally, I hope that your relationship with your FIL is not strained. Walk gently around this subject and don't beat him over the head about it, but don't back down either.

 

[henktermaat]

Google news search for "Church Shooting:"

church shooting - Google News

 

[cosermann]

People have been attacked during worship services for HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of years. Your FIL may be interested to know that people have been burned at the stake for, among other things, insisting on the right to be armed "at church". One such example is that of James Renwick (1662-1688) who resisted the government's harassment of the church in various ways.

For those interested in the history see this link:
Center for Reformed Theology and Apologetics

It's a bit long, but if you scroll down to his last speech you will find:

"And I was examined upon the application made therein unto the sins of the time; all which I owned once and again, as it is to be seen in my indictment; and being tried, and an assize set, I adhered to my former confessions explicitly; so my sentence of death was drawn forth upon these three heads:

<clip>

3. Because I taught it was people's duty to carry arms at the preaching of the Gospel, now that it is persecuted, for defending of themselves, and resisting unjust violence."

It seems being armed in worship cramped the government's style of sending armed soldiers in to violently break up the services.

For a LONG time, most Christians felt it was their DUTY to be armed in obedience to the Sixth Commandment. The popular pacifism we see nowadays is a recent development.

I'm not sure how successful you might be dealing with this. I suspect he has not approached it systematically and he may not be interested in doing so.

 

[henktermaat]

Illinois shooting, March 8th. pastor killed, Suspect planned "Death Day"
Church Shooting Drill

A church doing armed intruder DRILLS:
Church Shooting Drill

Sadly in Illinois the citizens have no right to armed self-defense.

 

[henktermaat]

I love the story of the lady who shot the bad guy in this church shooting...

The Heroine Of The Colorado Springs Church Shooting Nice Deb

The Heroine Of The Colorado Springs Church Shooting

December, 11, 2007 — nicedeb

Did anyone else get chills reading about the heroic actions of this woman, Jeanne Assam?
A woman, fresh from a three day fast, in which she prayed to God for guidence in choosing a career path, was thrown right into the path of this mad-dog killer:

Amid deafening cracks of gunfire, smoke-spewing canisters and the flight of thousands of New Life Church members, Jeanne Assam said she suddenly saw the hallways clear and a gunman come through the door.
“I took cover. I identified myself. I engaged him. I took him down,” the 42-year-old former law officer and volunteer church security guard said Monday at a news conference in the Colorado Springs police station.
“I just said, ‘Holy Spirit, be with me.’ I wasn’t even shaking,” Assam said. “I give the credit to God. I say this very humbly. God was with me.”
​

*Chills!*

“It was scary,” Assam said at the news conference. “I tell you it was scary. It was loud. I’ll never forget. The gunshots were so loud.”
Assam said she had drawn her weapon countless times in her prior law enforcement career, but she had never shot anyone until Sunday.
“I was very focused. I knew what I had to do,” she said. “It was it just seemed like me, the gunman and God.”
​

*Chills!*

“I was weak,” she said. “God made me strong. What was going through my mind is how awesome God is.”
​

*Chills!*

She said she loves law enforcement, but she still doesn’t have her answer about her future.
“I’m going to continue to pray about it,” Assam said.
​

The Paster called her “a real hero”.

“When the shots were fired, she rushed toward the scene and encountered the attacker there in a hallway. He never got more than 50 feet inside our building,” he said. “There could have been a great loss of life yesterday, and she probably saved over 100 lives.”
Boyd said the gunman had a lot of ammunition and estimated that 40 rounds had been fired inside the church, leaving what looked like a “war scene.”
​

Dave In Texas over at AOSHQ made note of the disparity in firepower between Assam and the gunman:

News reports said he had an “assault rifle”, and two handguns. Given the inability of the media to understand firearms, we might not know for months what he was carrying. But I’ll note this FWIW, say he had a cheap commie SKS.
*******. She took him on with a handgun. And took him out.
​

A Vietnam vet’s point of view:

Larry Bourbonnais, a combat-tested Vietnam veteran, said it was the bravest thing he’s ever seen.
Bourbonnais, who was among those shot by a gunman Sunday at New Life Church, watched as a security guard, a woman later identified as Jeanne Assam, calmly returned fire and killed the shooter.
“She just started walking toward the gunman firing the whole way,” said Bourbonnais, who was shot in the arm. “She was just yelling ‘Surrender,’ walking and shooting the whole time.”
​

Bourbonnais, 59, was chowing down in the chuch cafeteria when he heard the shots. He headed in the direction of the gunfire, asking “where’s the shooter?”, as people ran past him.

Near an entryway in the church, Bourbonnais came upon the gunman and an armed male church security guard who was there with his gun drawn but not firing, he said.
Bourbonnais said he pleaded with the armed guard to give him his weapon.
​

But the guard just hollered at Bourbonnais to get behind him.

He wouldn’t hand me his weapon, but he wouldn’t do anything.”
​

Armed guard #2 was no better:

There was an additional armed security guard there, another man, who also didn’t fire, Bourbonnais said.
​

A couple of damn wimps!

Bourbonnais yelled at the gunman to draw his attention, he said.
“First, I called him ‘Coward’ then I called him ‘S—head’ ” Bourbonnais said. “I probably shouldn’t have been saying that in church.”
​

No, indeed, it only attracted the shooter’s attention:

That’s when the shooter pointed one of his guns at Bourbonnais and fired, he said.
Bourbonnais ducked behind a hollow, decorative pillar and was hit in the arm by a bullet and fragments of the pillar.
​

Enter our heroine:

Assam turned a corner with a drawn handgun, walked toward the gunman and yelled “Surrender!” Bourbonnais said.
The gunman pointed a handgun at Assam and fired three shots, Bourbonnais said. She returned fire and just kept walking toward the gunman pressing off round after round.
After the gunman went down, Bourbonnais asked Assam, a volunteer security guard with the church, how she remained so calm and focused.
Bourbonnais said she replied:
“I was asking the Holy Spirit to guide me the entire time.”
​

Damn! More *chills*!

 

[Jack Ryan]

If there were no legal issues as you stated, then AFA1CY's post is absolutely on point. Maybe you need to re-educate your F-I-L on some of the horrible things that have both happened, AND been prevented, at churches in the last few years. The fact that it's a curch has nothing to do with what evildoers want to accomplish. Maybe refer him to the church ordeal in Colorado that was prevented BECAUSE they had armed members of the congregation that were providing security.

Were those "armed members" a bunch of self described novices with 25's? ROTFLMAO

Some people need some education around here that's for sure LOL.

 

[redneckmedic]

Thanks! Anybody got any incidents that come to mind?

Yeah, my FIL tried to rake me over the coals b/c of the "hassle" I had when I flew to TX and checked in my Glock 19 and S&W642, it took about 30secs, and a signature.

He said "Why do you go through the hassle, and what do you need those for?"

He is not anti-gun (Vietnam Vet) however lives in a bubble and feels since nothing has ever happened to him violently (stateside) no reason to carry.

Little does he know 99% of the time I am with him I am locked and loaded. Just can't find a swimsuit to match my holster!

 

[cce1302]

I see nothing wrong with what you did. I hope you have more opportunities to talk to your FIL and hopefully bring him around though.

 

[ATF Consumer]

I can't say this with 100% confidence, but for some reason I remember hearing the church shooting in Colorado 2-3 years ago was stopped by a citizen who was carrying a weapon.

edit - according to this (Gunman killed after opening fire at church - CNN.com) CNN article it was an armed security staff member.

Guns that save multiple people's lives should be call WMPs...Weapons of Mass Protection!