What is your threshold? - Page 4

BloodEclipse · 05-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by GetA2J

If that is the case then if I stick my tongue out at someone or flipp them off they are justified in attacking me????
I'm not buying into that mythology.

I'm just saying you should know the law well before you cross a line that gets you in trouble. If you don't have a copy of Indiana Handgun Law I suggest you get a copy and read it throughly. Page 104 is where I read what I think is a good example of how you would have been charged if you would have used a gun...... even if your window had been broken.
This forum is a great place to learn and if someone knows my interpretation to be wrong they will let me know. Its not an attack on anybody to help point out things that might help them out or save them some serious grief.

GetA2J · 05-09-2008

Thank you B.E.
I have a copy and have picked it up to read several times. Correction: I have picked it up for research several times.
There is a little discussed facet of firearm ownership / personal protection. That of: "What happens AFTER the confrontation?"
I still don't agree with the "provocation" you spoke about. That could be interpreted in countless forms and from countless activities.
Much like slamming on one's brakes to avert a tailgater. CAN the tailgater PROVE that the leader slammed on his brakes? or does the front man simply claim a small animal ran out in front?
Whomever has the better attorney wins!!!!!!

BloodEclipse · 05-09-2008

Well as we have said before, if an event happens we say " I felt threatened and I need a lawyer"
What it all comes down to I think is in front of a jury will they feel the way someone behaved was what a reasonable person would have done.

SavageEagle · 05-09-2008

It's hard to say without a specific situation what I would do. If I'm in my home and the kids are upstairs asleep with everyone else, I'd be headed that way, throwing anything I can down the stair to act as a blockade, grab my smoke bomb and use it, all the while screaming for my fiance to call the police. If and when they try to advance up the stairs they would encounter a warning shot. After which, if they don't stop, they would encounter the real thing.

Out in a public situation, like others have said, I won't pull my gun unless I intend to fire. and I train to fire-to-kill. I suppose I would draw my weapon if the situation would then calm down. Like say someone is threatening my family or another family/person with a weapon. If they cease to be a threat, I would re-holster and I'm sure the police would be well on their way by that point. I'm a small guy so only if I felt in grave danger would I draw. But I also feel that most situations can be talked out of. Diplomacy is the best policy. Only if diplomacy fails should you react with force. And Force should be met with Force.

I haven't had any formal force-on-force training but I plan on it when I can afford it. Although studying military tactics is a hobby of mine, nothing can replace formal training. Also, legal logistics are always in the back of my mind.

Shay VanVlymen · 05-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavageEagle

If and when they try to advance up the stairs they would encounter a warning shot. After which, if they don't stop, they would encounter the real thing.

I would strongly advise against warning shots.

Firing warning shots shows that you are not serious about the use of lethal force, it wastes one or more rounds that you might need later, possibly reduces your hearing and those bullet will travel somewhere to strike something that isn't the bad guy.

bwframe · 05-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shay VanVlymen

I would strongly advise against warning shots.

Firing warning shots shows that you are not serious about the use of lethal force, it wastes one or more rounds that you might need later, possibly reduces your hearing and those bullet will travel somewhere to strike something that isn't the bad guy.

What about the smoke bomb? Is that a good idea?

SavageEagle · 05-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shay VanVlymen

Firing warning shots shows that you are not serious about the use of lethal force, it wastes one or more rounds that you might need later, possibly reduces your hearing and those bullet will travel somewhere to strike something that isn't the bad guy.

Although that might be your IYHO, IMHO a warning shot shows that I'm serious and if you keep coming that hole in the wall will be a hole in you. As it's been stated before in other threads, should I need more than 5-6 shots I'm in trouble anyway. Which is why I keep two loaded clips of 14 apiece. As far as the bullet hitting something critical or SOMEONE else i don't intend, That's just not a possibility where I would be postitioned and everything else in the house sits. The worst thing I could hit would be our refrigerator or kitchen sink/water purifier. It's all in the way the house is set up.

As far as the smoke bomb, its just a deturrent against coming up the stairs since they will know I'm armed by me stating very clearly and the fact that most people wouldn't walk into a gunfight if the room is filled with smoke. I have many options being upstairs as I have other rooms to retreat to and have the advantage of knowing where they are by the sounds they make in my own home.

Shay VanVlymen · 05-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by bwframe

What about the smoke bomb? Is that a good idea?

Probably not but SE gets to make his own choices. All I see it as is a waste of energy and a potential fire hazard.

Shay VanVlymen · 05-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavageEagle

Although that might be your IYHO, IMHO a warning shot shows that I'm serious and if you keep coming that hole in the wall will be a hole in you. As it's been stated before in other threads, should I need more than 5-6 shots I'm in trouble anyway. Which is why I keep two loaded clips of 14 apiece. As far as the bullet hitting something critical or SOMEONE else i don't intend, That's just not a possibility where I would be postitioned and everything else in the house sits. The worst thing I could hit would be our refrigerator or kitchen sink/water purifier. It's all in the way the house is set up.

As far as the smoke bomb, its just a deturrent against coming up the stairs since they will know I'm armed by me stating very clearly and the fact that most people wouldn't walk into a gunfight if the room is filled with smoke. I have many options being upstairs as I have other rooms to retreat to and have the advantage of knowing where they are by the sounds they make in my own home.

You've obviously done a lot of thinking about this so all I can tell you is that I hope your plan holds up to the stress of someone trying to kill you. I don't mean that sarcastically.

bwframe · 05-09-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shay VanVlymen

Probably not but SE gets to make his own choices. All I see it as is a waste of energy and a potential fire hazard.

Thanks Shay. Your professional advice is always appreciated!

05-09-2008	#33 (permalink)
BloodEclipse Sheepdog Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,601	Well as we have said before, if an event happens we say " I felt threatened and I need a lawyer" What it all comes down to I think is in front of a jury will they feel the way someone behaved was what a reasonable person would have done. __________________ Homer: I’ll have the smiley face breakfast special. Uhh, but could you add a bacon nose? Plus bacon hair, bacon mustache, five o’clock shadow made of bacon bits and a bacon body. Waitress: How about I just shove a pig down your throat? (Homer looks excited) Waitress: I was kidding. Homer: Fine, but the bacon man lives in a bacon house! Waitress: No he doesn’t!

05-09-2008	#34 (permalink)
SavageEagle Walking Tall Amongst The Sheeple Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Plainfield Posts: 1,873	It's hard to say without a specific situation what I would do. If I'm in my home and the kids are upstairs asleep with everyone else, I'd be headed that way, throwing anything I can down the stair to act as a blockade, grab my smoke bomb and use it, all the while screaming for my fiance to call the police. If and when they try to advance up the stairs they would encounter a warning shot. After which, if they don't stop, they would encounter the real thing. Out in a public situation, like others have said, I won't pull my gun unless I intend to fire. and I train to fire-to-kill. I suppose I would draw my weapon if the situation would then calm down. Like say someone is threatening my family or another family/person with a weapon. If they cease to be a threat, I would re-holster and I'm sure the police would be well on their way by that point. I'm a small guy so only if I felt in grave danger would I draw. But I also feel that most situations can be talked out of. Diplomacy is the best policy. Only if diplomacy fails should you react with force. And Force should be met with Force. I haven't had any formal force-on-force training but I plan on it when I can afford it. Although studying military tactics is a hobby of mine, nothing can replace formal training. Also, legal logistics are always in the back of my mind. __________________ *ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE WHEN YOU'RE FREE!!!!*

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05-09-2008	#32 (permalink)
GetA2J Marksman Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Terre Haute,Indiana Posts: 579	Thank you B.E. I have a copy and have picked it up to read several times. Correction: I have picked it up for research several times. There is a little discussed facet of firearm ownership / personal protection. That of: "What happens AFTER the confrontation?" I still don't agree with the "provocation" you spoke about. That could be interpreted in countless forms and from countless activities. Much like slamming on one's brakes to avert a tailgater. CAN the tailgater PROVE that the leader slammed on his brakes? or does the front man simply claim a small animal ran out in front? Whomever has the better attorney wins!!!!!!