What is your threshold?

[Fenway]

As civilians we probably aren't going to have to deal with the "terrorist with a nuke" situation. Fun to think about but you might want to base your thinking and training on more realistic scenarios.

Originally Posted by SavageEagle

What if you blow him away and he's the only one who can tell you OR the FBI where that Nuke he planted is? there are scenarios where shoot to wound is called for. Think a little more openly about this....

[Josh Smith]

Originally Posted by Shay VanVlymen

Can you share with me the point at which you think you would shoot someone?

When there's no longer any doubt that if I don't, I'll suffer grave bodily injury or death.

That said, and with all due respect Mr. VanVlymen, is this really a good idea to ask this on a public board? If a member (God forbid) finds himself in such a situation, legal problems could arise in the aftermath if the prosecution has a savvy lawyer.

Just a question to your question sir, no disrespect meant.

Josh <><

[BloodEclipse]

Originally Posted by Josh Smith

When there's no longer any doubt that if I don't, I'll suffer grave bodily injury or death.

That said, and with all due respect Mr. VanVlymen, is this really a good idea to ask this on a public board? If a member (God forbid) finds himself in such a situation, legal problems could arise in the aftermath if the prosecution has a savvy lawyer.

Just a question to your question sir, no disrespect meant.

Josh <><

Its a great question to ask because what some thought that they might do may be rethought due to the wisdom and knowledge they get from reading others responses.

[Shay VanVlymen]

Originally Posted by Josh Smith

When there's no longer any doubt that if I don't, I'll suffer grave bodily injury or death.

That said, and with all due respect Mr. VanVlymen, is this really a good idea to ask this on a public board? If a member (God forbid) finds himself in such a situation, legal problems could arise in the aftermath if the prosecution has a savvy lawyer.

Just a question to your question sir, no disrespect meant.

Josh <><

I don't think you are being disrespectful at all. And I'm WAY too young to be "Mr. VanVlymen".

I asked the question because I want members of this board to think about where their personal line is before they have to make that decision under stress. The posts can be general but still thought provoking.

[Josh Smith]

Makes sense. Thank you.

Josh <><

[esrice]

Originally Posted by SavageEagle

Alright I'll check it out. How much does a good force on force class normally run? Anything I can do to learn how to protect my family I'm all for it.

SE - Your willingness to learn and try new things is refreshing. Many of us "internet forum pros" quickly forget that we don't know EVERYTHING either.

With no disrespect to you personally, it seems like some of the ideas in your posts are pulled from Hollywood movies rather than reality. But that's a good starting point. People who are new to guns often get their ideas from what they're familiar with. If your only previous exposure to guns was in movies, then its perfectly logical that your tactics would include smoke/distraction devices and "shooting to kill".

Although I am no expert, here are a couple things I noticed that will keep us "gun forum experts" resting better at night:

"Shoot to stop", not "shoot to kill" - The purpose of your firearm in a self-defense scenario should be to shoot to stop the threat. When the threat is gone, you stop shooting. "Shooting to kill" has a bad stigma that implies your intent was to kill an individual. Your intent should instead be to protect yourself, regardless of the condition of the aggressor.

Clip vs. Magazine - A "clip" is a device used for feeding ammunition where the ammo is "clipped" together, such as 'stripper clips' and 'moon clips'.

A "magazine" is also a device used for feeding ammunition, commonly used in semi-automatic handguns, such as your Baby Eagle.

Smoke/distraction devices - I think Shay covered this topic perfectly.

My recommendation is that you put your name in the hat for the FREE TRAINING offered by Shay and Tactical Response. If money is an issue, this would be a perfect opportunity to learn some valuable lessons for almost nothing. Two days with them and I bet most of your question would be answered.

http://ingunowners.com/forums/tactic..._training.html

Just my thoughts!

Evan

[SavageEagle]

esrice- Thanks for your inupt, I do appreciate it. Most of my ideas from this thread came from daydreaming what it would be like if someone broke into my home. Thinking about all the different scenarios I can think of. I usually stay awake long after everyone here goes to bed and end up day dreaming. Yes alot of my ideas come from TV, but not the kind of "tv" you are thinking. I watch alot of discovery, military channel, outdoors channel, etc. (Lemme tell ya, future weapons really gets you to wondering how long they really had this stuff)

You're right, shoot to stop. But to an untrained civilian, shooting to stop will more often than not end up in a fatal shot than a wound I would think. At least from all I've read. No I don't believe everything I read, but you have to at least consider it. I don't ever want to have to kill someone but I will if I have to to protect my family. Taking a life is not something I look forward to, but you have to TRY and prepare yourself for the fact that it MIGHT come to that.

Although I would LOVE a chance at free training, I doubt I could afford to TRAVEL to Tennesse at this point. We are really strapped for cash here and BARELY making it. I lost my job as a night janitor and I'm looking for temp work until I find out if I get the armored car driver job. My fiance is looking for work too but it's hard since she was in a wreck with our last van. I have some (very) informal handgun training, but I have some extensive rifle/shotgun training. I'm really more worried about my fiance who has NO experiance with firearms at all. When I bought my Sears 500 and my Sigma was the first time she had ever HANDLED a firearm. She's never shot anything beyond a pellet gun. So having one in the house I feel she needs basic training before I get formal training for myself.

[Josh Smith]

But to an untrained civilian, shooting to stop will more often than not end up in a fatal shot than a wound I would think.

Last I heard, ~80% of those shot with handguns survive. They're just not that powerful.

As well, and this is a pet peeve of mine: Police are civilians. The only people who are not civilians are the military. The term that most people look for and miss when they're trying to describe the average Joe is "private citizen."

This is not meant to be offensive to any police officers out there; just the way things are.

Josh <><

[Pami]

Originally Posted by SavageEagle

Although I would LOVE a chance at free training, I doubt I could afford to TRAVEL to Tennesse at this point. We are really strapped for cash here and BARELY making it. I lost my job as a night janitor and I'm looking for temp work until I find out if I get the armored car driver job. My fiance is looking for work too but it's hard since she was in a wreck with our last van. I have some (very) informal handgun training, but I have some extensive rifle/shotgun training. I'm really more worried about my fiance who has NO experiance with firearms at all. When I bought my Sears 500 and my Sigma was the first time she had ever HANDLED a firearm. She's never shot anything beyond a pellet gun. So having one in the house I feel she needs basic training before I get formal training for myself.

Yes, yes yes yes YES.

Both of you need training, not just her. In the two classes Lars and I have taken so far, I'm stunned by how many attendees are "experienced" shooters who are just there to show solidarity to their wives or thought they'd at least get one formal class in, etc. etc., and then are always surprised by how much they actually got out of the class themselves.

I strongly, STRONGLY recommend you get her signed up for a basic pistol class. Even if it's just the NRA Basic Pistol class... they go over ALL the details, and it's really directed at the "I've never touch a gun in my life" type of student, although, as I said, even the "experienced" guys learned new things.

Three months ago, I had never handled a firearm of any type. In fact, if Lars tried to show me his and show me how to operate it, I would burst into tears. That's not him trying to get me to touch it, hold it, handle it.. just showing it to me made me cry. Uncontrollably. I'd go psychotic.

Until I had an incident at work that made me aware of my vulnerability, and I made the decision to stop letting myself be a potential victim.

Meeting with some of his friends, reading *everything* in this forum (yes, I do read about 95% of the posts here), spending a LOT of time on the range, and taking the trainings I have and looking forward to the trainings I'm signed up for have really done a lot to increase my confidence not only in handling loaded firearms but just in life in general.

Bottom line: I know things are tight financially (trust me, we operate on a $0 budget, too, normally, and this is an expensive passion), but you have to find a way to get at least one basic pistol class in for BOTH of you.

My $0.02.

[SavageEagle]

techincally, I said untrained civilian. Police are WELL trained... or so they SHOULD be.

I know I have a lot to learn and that's why I'm here. I'm not saying you were trying to do so, but please try not to jump my case when I say something stupid. I try not to but sometimes it happens! LOL