What is your threshold?

[Josh Smith]

Originally Posted by Shay VanVlymen

Josh,

What formal training have you had?

H2H combatives, Aikido mixed with several other forms including military combatives. Certified to instruct both empty hand and weapons, not including firearms.

Certified OC training, law enforcement.

Handgun training, local law enforcement.

Handgun training, college, law enforcement. This involved several fun things including having to score after a pepper spray hit. Weapon retention, shooting prone, on my back, side, strong hand, weak hand, etc.

Real life incidents that I don't want to discuss.

Granted a lot of this training is a bit old (~10 years, give or take.) However, I still practice the majority of it.

I am not a police officer nor have I been. After the courses I decided I wanted a different path in life.

Josh <><

[Shay VanVlymen]

Have you ever paid for firearms training outside of law enforcement?

[Sailor]

Shay, do you still get training?

My guess is yes.

Regardless of your level of training and expertise, we can ALL benefit from continuous training. Just being around others who are willing to learn and grow forces you to adapt and look at your self from another angle.

Still you will be better than 99% of the criminals out there, but everyone has room for improvement.

[esrice]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Shay, do you still get training?

I think I remember seeing Shay's name on the list of people who took the first basic class in New Castle with Matt (pierce195). I laughed at first. But the more I thought about it the more it made sense.

[Shay VanVlymen]

Originally Posted by Sailor

Shay, do you still get training?

My guess is yes.

Regardless of your level of training and expertise, we can ALL benefit from continuous training. Just being around others who are willing to learn and grow forces you to adapt and look at your self from another angle.

Yes, I train with as many instructors as possible. Always a student; sometimes a teacher.

Tiger Woods still has a golf coach...

[rhino]

My opinion on the "training" issue is not shared by many people.

I think that professional instruction (whether you pay for it or not) greatly accelerates the learning curve for anyone. I think that most people need it to master certain skills in a reasonable amount of time (like their lifetime).

On the other hand, I believe there exist (and I have met a few) people who are self-taught that I think would do as well as any training junkie in a personal defense situation. These people are rare, but then so are people who can teach themself to play the violin well. Some people have a talent for watching others and mimicking their movements that is beyond the vast majority of the population. It's just the way it is.

This does not in any way demean the value of professional instruction in my eyes. I think that even the competent self-taught individual could benefit greatly from it, given the right instructor(s) and curriculum. I just don't agree that 100% of the population "needs training" in the sense it is discussed here and in similar venues.

I also believe that most people who think they are one of those rare people who can learn this stuff on their own are wrong.

[Fenway]

This is a very interesting discussion. 50% of my living right now comes from training middle school kids through adults to "master" a musical instrument. I went to IU to learn from the very best in the world and now I pass that knowledge down to others.

All of my students learn things and are better off than those who don't have instruction. My best chance for a "successful student" is if I get them in the 5th grade before they pick up bad habits that take months or years to unlearn. My "worst students" are the adults who have been hacking away for years trying to reinvent the wheel while developing horrible habits. By the time they get to me the bad habits are nearly impossible to break because the muscle memory has become so strong.

Talent has a lot to do with it. I can see a student for the first time in the 5th grade and know if he has "got it" Things come naturally and he or she could probably go very far with out my guidance. I also see people with 0 natural talent and I can mold them into someone who can be very capable. If they didn't have my instruction many of them will never make it. Most likely they would become very frustrated and quit.

So I can take a talented student and turn them into a monster player or someone with zero natural talent and turn them into a very decent player capable of doing many of the things the talented player can do.

What does this have to do with firearms. I think it's exactly the same IMHO. If you have the basic firearms safety rules under control I'm sure you can do a lot of things and be safe. If you really want to improve you learn from the very best and you skip the going around in circles / reinventing the wheel part and fly straight to your target.

[SilentWarrior1]

I tend to look at training as Martial Art fighting styles. No one style is absolute, and with some work, you can mix and interlace them.

Some styles won't work for some people. A short, stocky person wouldn't be benefitting from a style that was aerial based and longer ranged attacks... as a taller, lankier wouldn't necessarily benefit from a ground based, grappling and close in attacks.

So, I try to absorb as much information whether by instruction, or by self-absorption (i.e. reading, video, etc.) and weed out the bad information so good information can be used for further study.

Bottom line... Use what works for you.

[Josh Smith]

Originally Posted by Shay VanVlymen

Have you ever paid for firearms training outside of law enforcement?

No, I have not.

Josh <><

[SavageEagle]

Wow, the more I follow this thread the more I realize just how much I NEED the training. As Josh said practice is CRUCIAL with your carry weapon, but unless you are thrust into a high stress situation you never know how you will react unless you have training which begets instincts. I have taken some extensive Tae Kwon Do training, and while I never reached BB, I was very close, and with that knowledge and training, I became more prepared to defend myself. Because of that training I learned disipline in high stress situations. Although I stopped practicing my forms and one-steps, I still retained alot of instincts I learned there.

Anyway, like I said before, I know I need training, and alot of it. That's why I signed up on here. I figure this is a great place to start. I also look forward to reading about your experiances and maybe meeting up on the range one day. My fiance really needs the training too so one day we'll both hopefully get to meet some real great instructors. I really appreciate the great discussions and for putting me in my place when i fell outta line! LOL