Can You Shoot Him?

[mskendall]

I think if after he dropped the wheels and you put a large steak knife in his hands, it would then be justified.

[clt46910]

I also believe you would be in trouble for shooting an unarmed man that was not a threat to you.

While I agree that he desired it and would do so myself if it was legal to do so. With our present laws, it is not.

Now a flashlight up the side of the head when he has his arms full of your tire and rims, maybe.

[VN Vet]

If you had time to think about drawing your firearm, you had time to look at a memorizing the the description of the SUV and it's license plate number. Having the BG's stopped with your rims in their vehicle and prosucuting them would have been so much fun.

Wheels are stuff that can be recovered or replaced. I would not have presented my firearm let alone fired at the BG.

[Shay]

Bad shooting and bad shoot.

[Timjoebillybob]

Its not reasonable force it is deadly force, no matter if you shoot to injure, kill, stop or even a warning shot. Once you fire the weapon it is deadly force. Since it was a simple theft on an unoccupied vehicle with no threat of serious bodily injury, deadly force is not legal.

ETA Actually just pointing your firearm at him is quite possibly against the law, IN code allows you to point a firearm at someone only if you have reasonable belief that an unlawful use of force is imminent.

[newguyjosh]

I'm going to have to agree with everyone and say no. This was not a forcible felony and shooting him was not reasonable force. I think the best course of action was to get the plate number and call the police with a vehicle and thief description.

My question would be (sorry for asking a question in your question) is what if instead of shooting him I ran after him and decked him. I think thats reasonable...but then his 2 or 3 buddies jumped in and they were all beating me. Could I shoot? I think probably not because I escalated the situation by punching him. If they just plain out attacked me I could shoot?

[critter592]

Originally Posted by newguyjosh

I'm going to have to agree with everyone and say no. This was not a forcible felony and shooting him was not reasonable force. I think the best course of action was to get the plate number and call the police with a vehicle and thief description.

My question would be (sorry for asking a question in your question) is what if instead of shooting him I ran after him and decked him. I think thats reasonable...but then his 2 or 3 buddies jumped in and they were all beating me. Could I shoot? I think probably not because I escalated the situation by punching him. If they just plain out attacked me I could shoot?

Exactly my question too! You're CCW. Your stuff is being taken. You can't shoot them but you can use "reasonable" force. You try to physically intervene with the one guy. You haven't drawn anything. You tussle and he fights. What if you realise he's much stronger than you and you feel you are about to receive SBI? Now are you within the law to shoot? Just because he doesn't have a weapon doesn't mean you aren't in danger of SBI.

[GunLawyer]

Originally Posted by critter592

Exactly my question too! You're CCW. Your stuff is being taken. You can't shoot them but you can use "reasonable" force. You try to physically intervene with the one guy. You haven't drawn anything. You tussle and he fights. What if you realise he's much stronger than you and you feel you are about to receive SBI? Now are you within the law to shoot? Just because he doesn't have a weapon doesn't mean you aren't in danger of SBI.

Great question. Consider this portion of the Indiana Code:

"(e) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c), a person is not justified in using force if:

* * *

(3) the person has entered into combat with another person or is the initial aggressor unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the other person the intent to do so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful action."

[Beau]

Originally Posted by GunLawyer

Great question. Consider this portion of the Indiana Code:

"(e) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c), a person is not justified in using force if:

* * *

(3) the person has entered into combat with another person or is the initial aggressor unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the other person the intent to do so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful action."

So you go up to him and give him a good smack. When they turn to attack you back off state that you don't want to fight and then shoot him when he continues to advance?

As to the original post I will follow the crowd. Your going to jail.

[D.Kupp]

Originally Posted by newguyjosh

I'm going to have to agree with everyone and say no. This was not a forcible felony and shooting him was not reasonable force. I think the best course of action was to get the plate number and call the police with a vehicle and thief description.

My question would be (sorry for asking a question in your question) is what if instead of shooting him I ran after him and decked him. I think thats reasonable...but then his 2 or 3 buddies jumped in and they were all beating me. Could I shoot? I think probably not because I escalated the situation by punching him. If they just plain out attacked me I could shoot?

No, I believe you can "try to stop the theft within reason" and if tackling him is the way you chose to, you are fine.

At that point when three men decide to beat you, you can use deadly force in response to serious bodily injury.

They can't claim self defense of any sort while in the act of committing a felony. I'm assuming your wheels are worth enough (retail) to justify a felony?

In response to your quote "GunLawyer":

"(e) Notwithstanding subsections (a), (b), and (c), a person is not justified in using force if:

* * *

(3) the person has entered into combat with another person or is the initial aggressor unless the person withdraws from the encounter and communicates to the other person the intent to do so and the other person nevertheless continues or threatens to continue unlawful action."

You need to separate the actual events. You stopping the theif is one event. Two men assaulting you is a new separate act that you have the right to defend yourself against. Do you really think if someone punches you that it's ok for a disparaging number of your friends to then take care of him, because he threw one punch first? No, it's not.

Seriously, you are "GunLawyer". Are you researching, asking for opinions or quizzing?

to HCAman- no it is not legal to shoot a tire. You are not defending yourself or anyone from that tire. ;-)

Finity- you CANNOT use reasonable force when the man is stealing your wheels if he is not using unlawful force on you. Sorry.