Indiana Woman Shoots Biker In Road Rage Case

[Crystalship1]

Originally Posted by BloodEclipse

You make it sound like he wasn't any kind of a threat. What seems not to be understood is that people react differently to fight or flight. The body is pumped full of adrenaline. Some people cower and cry, some respond aggressively. There were reports she was screaming at the victim. Now while that sounds mean and obnoxious, in the context of just having shot someone I doubt none of us are sure how we would react. That is why some people ramble on to the cops and say more than they should. They are amped up and need an outlet of some type. I'm not one to lay blame for how someone reacted to a confrontation. Hopefully she has a good lawyer and this will be brought to the jury's attention.

Heheheh...... I stated a fact, nothing more.

[BloodEclipse]

Originally Posted by Crystalship1

Heheheh...... I stated a fact, nothing more.

Roger that.

[Subystomper]

She may be in the right on this but by law she could be in deep trouble for this. If he didn't say anything or make contact with anything for her to be in fear for hers or her kids life and he did not produce any type of a waepon then she could face some serious charges and possibly lose.

[paddling_man]

Originally Posted by Steeler

Yep, I ride a bike as well and have nearly been killed by moronic drivers on a couple occasions.
I don`t know the details of this incident, but I haven`t even heard the lady say that the biker even said anything to her.
If he was approching her vehicle saying he was going to kill her, then fine, smoke his ass. But if he was just pissed off and coming to her car....?

I've seen this thread go on for months and, other than a short visit, have avoided reading this due to internal conflicts.

THIS case, I'm not going to comment on - it sounds like both of these folks were sketchy in the past and may have been the exception to the rule.

There is something I feel compelled to say: There are many analogies between riding a motorcycle and carrying a handgun.

Both are licensed by the State with no mandated training - a background check for one, a license test for the other. However, many of us who carry daily do go on to get additional training regarding effective and legal use of a handgun. Many of us also continue training, beyond the State testing, for improving our motorcycling skills through organizations like ABATE.

Beyond the physical skills required for both activities are the much greater mental skills required to responsibly do either.

When to "walk away" from trouble is huge. Failure to do so is, in my opinion, foolish and potentially criminal.

ABATE teaches us to "walk away" from trouble. Pull over to avoid the overly aggressive driver. Just like we are expected to avoid the bad situation developing when the end result could be pulling your firearm.

For those of you who don't ride, let me describe my commute. Fishers (0715-0800) traveling along Allisonville to 465, west to 71st Street. There are times the alternate route might include 96th, 106th or 116th. The evening ride home is about 1700-1830.

Demographing is okay in sales - it is considered non-PC when applied in a negative manner. I'll use it anyway. Who drives in the most unsafe manner around bikes? Riding WAY to close in congested traffic to be able to stop safely without scraping me under the bumper? Merging over on top of me due to either not caring (he'll move) or not paying attention (cell phone / makeup?) In Indy - 3rd, black males between 18 - 35. 2nd, black women between 16 and 50. 1st, white females between 16 -25.

That demo has just been what I've observed since I've been in Indy.

I average around 150-200 miles per week commuting and riding. These folks driving around me like that, right on my rear tire, are no different (and arguably worse) than sweeping me at the range with a loaded handgun with your finger beginning to squeeze the trigger.

After a bit, though I'm consistently "walking away" from these jack****s, sometimes I'm trapped in congested traffic and can't get away. Damn right, I'm "threatened" by them. Yep, I'm pissed. Yep, just two weeks ago when trapped in stopped traffic on 465 and the cell phone wielding, 35 year old black male decides he wants in my lane and decides the best way to do it is to creeeeep over into my lane 'til his bumper is literally 6 inches from my leg... yeah, I'm pissed. Yep, I'm actually yelling, "WTF do you think you're doing?!?!?!"

Alright. I'll stop. The facts of this case are sketchy. More appropriately, the folks in this case are sketchy. I'll refrain from getting off my bike at a traffic light, walking back to the car that has been endangering my life as surely as if they're swinging their loaded handgun across my body mass, and asking them to please, back the h**l off before they kill me through their negligence.

Just please understand that driving dangerously is even more sensitive to those of us who choose to ride outside of a cage when we share the road. Just as those of us who choose to frequent the range are more sensitive to muzzle safety and trigger control of others around us.

Also, I wouldn't want anyone to reduce their situational awareness or let a perceived danger get too close, but please don't encourage others to start popping off rounds when someone comes walking up to their car - that situation, as applied to someone who might be coming to tell you that the gas cap is open, is kinda scary.

Rant off...

[Steeler]

Originally Posted by paddling_man

I've seen this thread go on for months and, other than a short visit, have avoided reading this due to internal conflicts.

THIS case, I'm not going to comment on - it sounds like both of these folks were sketchy in the past and may have been the exception to the rule.

There is something I feel compelled to say: There are many analogies between riding a motorcycle and carrying a handgun.

Both are licensed by the State with no mandated training - a background check for one, a license test for the other. However, many of us who carry daily do go on to get additional training regarding effective and legal use of a handgun. Many of us also continue training, beyond the State testing, for improving our motorcycling skills through organizations like ABATE.

Beyond the physical skills required for both activities are the much greater mental skills required to responsibly do either.

When to "walk away" from trouble is huge. Failure to do so is, in my opinion, foolish and potentially criminal.

ABATE teaches us to "walk away" from trouble. Pull over to avoid the overly aggressive driver. Just like we are expected to avoid the bad situation developing when the end result could be pulling your firearm.

For those of you who don't ride, let me describe my commute. Fishers (0715-0800) traveling along Allisonville to 465, west to 71st Street. There are times the alternate route might include 96th, 106th or 116th. The evening ride home is about 1700-1830.

Demographing is okay in sales - it is considered non-PC when applied in a negative manner. I'll use it anyway. Who drives in the most unsafe manner around bikes? Riding WAY to close in congested traffic to be able to stop safely without scraping me under the bumper? Merging over on top of me due to either not caring (he'll move) or not paying attention (cell phone / makeup?) In Indy - 3rd, black males between 18 - 35. 2nd, black women between 16 and 50. 1st, white females between 16 -25.

That demo has just been what I've observed since I've been in Indy.

I average around 150-200 miles per week commuting and riding. These folks driving around me like that, right on my rear tire, are no different (and arguably worse) than sweeping me at the range with a loaded handgun with your finger beginning to squeeze the trigger.

After a bit, though I'm consistently "walking away" from these jack****s, sometimes I'm trapped in congested traffic and can't get away. Damn right, I'm "threatened" by them. Yep, I'm pissed. Yep, just two weeks ago when trapped in stopped traffic on 465 and the cell phone wielding, 35 year old black male decides he wants in my lane and decides the best way to do it is to creeeeep over into my lane 'til his bumper is literally 6 inches from my leg... yeah, I'm pissed. Yep, I'm actually yelling, "WTF do you think you're doing?!?!?!"

Alright. I'll stop. The facts of this case are sketchy. More appropriately, the folks in this case are sketchy. I'll refrain from getting off my bike at a traffic light, walking back to the car that has been endangering my life as surely as if they're swinging their loaded handgun across my body mass, and asking them to please, back the h**l off before they kill me through their negligence.

Just please understand that driving dangerously is even more sensitive to those of us who choose to ride outside of a cage when we share the road. Just as those of us who choose to frequent the range are more sensitive to muzzle safety and trigger control of others around us.

Also, I wouldn't want anyone to reduce their situational awareness or let a perceived danger get too close, but please don't encourage others to start popping off rounds when someone comes walking up to their car - that situation, as applied to someone who might be coming to tell you that the gas cap is open, is kinda scary.

Rant off...

+1!!! Excellent!!

[4sarge]

Also, I wouldn't want anyone to reduce their situational awareness or let a perceived danger get too close, but please don't encourage others to start popping off rounds when someone comes walking up to their car - that situation, as applied to someone who might be coming to tell you that the gas cap is open, is kinda scary.

Excellent Quote

[quicksdraw]

Originally Posted by paddling_man

I've seen this thread go on for months and, other than a short visit, have avoided reading this due to internal conflicts.

THIS case, I'm not going to comment on - it sounds like both of these folks were sketchy in the past and may have been the exception to the rule.

There is something I feel compelled to say: There are many analogies between riding a motorcycle and carrying a handgun.

Both are licensed by the State with no mandated training - a background check for one, a license test for the other. However, many of us who carry daily do go on to get additional training regarding effective and legal use of a handgun. Many of us also continue training, beyond the State testing, for improving our motorcycling skills through organizations like ABATE.

Beyond the physical skills required for both activities are the much greater mental skills required to responsibly do either.

When to "walk away" from trouble is huge. Failure to do so is, in my opinion, foolish and potentially criminal.

ABATE teaches us to "walk away" from trouble. Pull over to avoid the overly aggressive driver. Just like we are expected to avoid the bad situation developing when the end result could be pulling your firearm.

For those of you who don't ride, let me describe my commute. Fishers (0715-0800) traveling along Allisonville to 465, west to 71st Street. There are times the alternate route might include 96th, 106th or 116th. The evening ride home is about 1700-1830.

Demographing is okay in sales - it is considered non-PC when applied in a negative manner. I'll use it anyway. Who drives in the most unsafe manner around bikes? Riding WAY to close in congested traffic to be able to stop safely without scraping me under the bumper? Merging over on top of me due to either not caring (he'll move) or not paying attention (cell phone / makeup?) In Indy - 3rd, black males between 18 - 35. 2nd, black women between 16 and 50. 1st, white females between 16 -25.

That demo has just been what I've observed since I've been in Indy.

I average around 150-200 miles per week commuting and riding. These folks driving around me like that, right on my rear tire, are no different (and arguably worse) than sweeping me at the range with a loaded handgun with your finger beginning to squeeze the trigger.

After a bit, though I'm consistently "walking away" from these jack****s, sometimes I'm trapped in congested traffic and can't get away. Damn right, I'm "threatened" by them. Yep, I'm pissed. Yep, just two weeks ago when trapped in stopped traffic on 465 and the cell phone wielding, 35 year old black male decides he wants in my lane and decides the best way to do it is to creeeeep over into my lane 'til his bumper is literally 6 inches from my leg... yeah, I'm pissed. Yep, I'm actually yelling, "WTF do you think you're doing?!?!?!"

Alright. I'll stop. The facts of this case are sketchy. More appropriately, the folks in this case are sketchy. I'll refrain from getting off my bike at a traffic light, walking back to the car that has been endangering my life as surely as if they're swinging their loaded handgun across my body mass, and asking them to please, back the h**l off before they kill me through their negligence.

Just please understand that driving dangerously is even more sensitive to those of us who choose to ride outside of a cage when we share the road. Just as those of us who choose to frequent the range are more sensitive to muzzle safety and trigger control of others around us.

Also, I wouldn't want anyone to reduce their situational awareness or let a perceived danger get too close, but please don't encourage others to start popping off rounds when someone comes walking up to their car - that situation, as applied to someone who might be coming to tell you that the gas cap is open, is kinda scary.

Rant off...

Damn well said!

[MACHINEGUN]

This lady sounds like a complete whack job.. hopefully prison bars are in her future.

[MACHINEGUN]

Video of the incident...

Video

[tjeads]

We all know that the best fight is the one we avoid. I teach my children what I believe to be the definition of a victim. A vicitim is [IMHO] "A person who suffers injury who BOTH is non-deserving of the injury AND could not have REASONABLE avoided the injury" I made up that definition and I memorized it and live by it. Someone who does extreme sports and dies is not a victim. They didn't deserve death, but they could have reasonably avoided it. The man who eats Big Mac's his whole life and has a heart attack isn't a victim, he didn't deserve death, but he could have avoided untimely demise with reasonable efforts. A man carrying money dangling out of his hands, walking down a dark alley in D.C. announcing all the dough he has, when he is robbed IS NOT A VICTIM. He didn't deserve to be robbed, but he was a fool and could have avoided injury.
To me, all of these discussions hinge on whether or not the defendant was an actual victim or imminent victim. If two guys are cussing each other out and shoving each other, who then start exchanging blows, and then one gets knifed, that man isn't a victim...he is an injured party, but NOT A VICTIM.
This woman could have reasonably avoided the confrontation. If she didn't have a gun, she probably would have "bumped" his bike or bumped him with the door and then drove on. But because she had the gun, she used it. She isn't a victim. Now neither is the guy who was shot, of course!
Listen to me readers! IMHO, the rest of the world doesn't like vigilantes. They like saviors and heros, but not vigilantes. And public opinion molds and shapes law. If CCW folks like you and I become vigilantes, we will have our freedoms restrained even more. We need to use our right to bear arms with much sobriety.