Indy Man shot, killed during attempted robbery

[DocGlock86]

You know I've always heard that if you ever have to shoot someone make sure that; A. it's you last resort and B. you give the perp a chance to stand down. But I would think in a situation like this you don't have that chance to think and chat and the spilt second you draw and point your weapon is warning enough to stand down.

[Dogman]

RIP, to someone that tried to do the right thing.

[GetA2J]

Originally Posted by Dogman

RIP, to someone that tried to do the right thing.

[Disposable Heart]

A handgun or permit or training isnt a talisman. Karma and luck have some to play. Prepare, but be also be ready to accept the consequences if one chooses to play the "hero". Can the warnings, get rid of the bravado. You will face charges regardless if you warn or not. Life isnt always as Massad will tell you or like the movies show. Your life is much more important that a few bucks in your wallet. Alot of internet blow hards (Ive seen on a bunch of boards) will get killed in this situation. Ive been at knife point once in college and while I had a gun in my back pocket, I just gave him the wallet and let him on his way. Had I tried to draw or tell him to drop it, I would probably be eating from a tube now. Not as glamourous as the traning vids show it huh? Guy eventually got caught not even 15 minutes later.

For those claiming dreams of failure drills and being a hero: Let this be an example. Defend yourself, let the police be the heros. Unless you see them employ deadly force as a force, not as a threat, no reason for you to get involved. Be a trained witness, not just a gunfighter. A cellular phone is more powerful than a thousand .45 slugs. Unless you purposefully get yourself mugged to shoot people on a weekly basis, the adenaline dump is scary and you cannot control it. I can sit there and do my usual drills every night, but still doesnt compare to being literally scared out of your wits. You ACTUALLY FREEZE UP!

RIP Old Man.

[Indy_Guy_77]

That man is a HERO, plain and simple.

He voluntarily put himself in an extremely dangerous situation to help out that woman.

He paid the ultimate price.

"There is no greater love than he who would lay down his life for friends."

-J-

[4sarge]

Originally Posted by Indy_Guy_77

That man is a HERO, plain and simple.

He voluntarily put himself in an extremely dangerous situation to help out that woman.

He paid the ultimate price.

"There is no greater love than he who would lay down his life for friends."

-J-

+1

[abnk]

Originally Posted by Disposable Heart

A handgun or permit or training isnt a talisman. Karma and luck have some to play. Prepare, but be also be ready to accept the consequences if one chooses to play the "hero". Can the warnings, get rid of the bravado. You will face charges regardless if you warn or not. Life isnt always as Massad will tell you or like the movies show. Your life is much more important that a few bucks in your wallet. Alot of internet blow hards (Ive seen on a bunch of boards) will get killed in this situation. Ive been at knife point once in college and while I had a gun in my back pocket, I just gave him the wallet and let him on his way. Had I tried to draw or tell him to drop it, I would probably be eating from a tube now. Not as glamourous as the traning vids show it huh? Guy eventually got caught not even 15 minutes later.

For those claiming dreams of failure drills and being a hero: Let this be an example. Defend yourself, let the police be the heros. Unless you see them employ deadly force as a force, not as a threat, no reason for you to get involved. Be a trained witness, not just a gunfighter. A cellular phone is more powerful than a thousand .45 slugs. Unless you purposefully get yourself mugged to shoot people on a weekly basis, the adenaline dump is scary and you cannot control it. I can sit there and do my usual drills every night, but still doesnt compare to being literally scared out of your wits. You ACTUALLY FREEZE UP!

RIP Old Man.

You make some good points, but I'm not sure that I agree with the highlighted part; especially with the last sentence. All intructors that I have trained with emphasize that one will not rise to the occasion miraculously, but will revert to previous training. However, I am not insinuating that this is true simply because some instructors said it. My personal experience also confirms what they teach. If all people froze in duress, all attacks would end with the attacker as the victor.

If I misunderstood your message, I apologize.

[Disposable Heart]

I didnt revert to jack shit, no matter the training. I used to practice drawing all day with (yeah, at the time) a Jimenez POS. Had it down to a fluid, efficient motion, loading drills (not too much different than the hour a night I spend today with much better). Now, I think I would not freeze. But will I depend on that when I am being robbed? Maybe not. I trained almost continously before the incident and realistically, I froze. Plain and simple. Does that make my training useless? Not really. Does that make real training (I didnt pay for mine, so I guess its not the same) uselss? Once again, No. Does that make me useless? Potentially, yes. I guess it matters on the person, not the situation or training.

In regards to the other stuff: I didnt say he wasnt a hero. Im saying I am a coward. Not fun to admit it, but strictly speaking, I am.

BTW Abnk, PM me with your running results. That thread had some potential, but died pretty quick!

[4sarge]

Originally Posted by Disposable Heart

I didn't revert to jack shit, no matter the training. I used to practice drawing all day with (yeah, at the time) a Jimenez POS. Had it down to a fluid, efficient motion, loading drills (not too much different than the hour a night I spend today with much better). Now, I think I would not freeze. But will I depend on that when I am being robbed? Maybe not. I trained almost continously before the incident and realistically, I froze. Plain and simple. Does that make my training useless? Not really. Does that make real training (I didnt pay for mine, so I guess its not the same) uselss? Once again, No. Does that make me useless? Potentially, yes. I guess it matters on the person, not the situation or training.

In regards to the other stuff: I didnt say he wasnt a hero. Im saying I am a coward. Not fun to admit it, but strictly speaking, I am.

BTW Abnk, PM me with your running results. That thread had some potential, but died pretty quick!

DH, heroes are made by situations not born. Every shooting that I personally have been involved in always seemed in slow motion even though things were happening quickly. Sub conscious training was running the show (Thank God) but my slow mo conscious was in the oh shit this isn't really happening mode but I can only speak from my own personal experiences.

[Dogman]

Originally Posted by Disposable Heart

I just gave him the wallet and let him on his way.

You did what you had to to survive, and at the end of the day that's what counts, it doesn't make you a coward. It means you used common sense.