CCW Holder Defends Self & Wife.

W9ZEB · 08-02-2008

www.kansascity.com | 08/02/2008 | Bank customer shoots man in attempted robbery

One could argue this man should have allowed the suspect to leave with "The Loot" as life is obviously more important than money/credit cards. Telling the robber to stop invited him to a gunfight which may or may not be legal....

Quote:

Bank customer shoots man in attempted robbery

A bank customer shot another man who apparently was attempting to rob him about 9 a.m. today, police said.
The alleged robber, who was wounded in the head, this afternoon is in stable condition, police said.
A man and a woman, described as an older couple, were using the ATM at the Bank of America at North Oak Trafficway and Barry Road, police said, when a man approached with a gun and robbed them.
A couple was stopped at the ATM.
The robber was walking away when the male victim got out of the car with his gun and yelled for him to stop, said Sgt. Chris Lantz of the department’s robbery unit.
The robber turned around and pointed his gun at the man, Lantz said. The robbery victim fired his gun, hitting the robber in the head, he said.
At the scene investigators earlier today investigators were collecting evidence from a dark sedan parked next to the ATM machine. An object that looked like a hand gun was lying on the pavement. Nearby were apparent blood stains.
The couple and witnesses were interviewed by police.
The man had a permit to carry a concealed gun, Lantz said. Under the circumstances, Lantz said, that would not matter, because he could legally carry the weapon in his car.
It is unusual where a robbery victim defends themselves with a fire arm.
“You don’t see that very often,” Lantz said.
Police ask that anyone who witnessed the incident call the TIPS Hotline, 816-474-TIPS (816) 474-8477.

BloodEclipse · 08-03-2008

It will depend on the state laws. The prosecutor will play a big role too. A case could be made that because he was leaving the threat was no longer there.

I'm guessing that a case could also be made that the robbery victim could say "I still felt threatened because he was holding the gun and I wanted to stop him so he didn't get to do this to the next visitor to the ATM." "I was hoping when he saw me armed he would surrender, it was not my intent to shoot the man for robbing me"

pmpmstrb · 08-03-2008

What exactly is required to perform a citizen's arrest? Could it be used in a situation like this?

turkeykiller · 08-03-2008

He was robed at gun point! Hurray for the older man that shot him, maybe he just saved another life from the next time this scumbag robber went out to rob.

Crystalship1 · 08-03-2008

Personally... I've got no problem with the man's actions. However, this didn't happen in Texas and I fear for his freedom in this upside-down liberal-infected legal system that they/we have.

haldir · 08-03-2008

If he had been in rural MO, I would bet he would be okay. Kansas City though, I dunno. Big cities seem to draw a different sort of prosecutor sometimes. Just like up in my area. I think in Elkhart County he would be okay. St. Joseph County, I wouldn't bet either way.

Ri22o · 08-03-2008

The story was confusing as hell, until I figured out they were using a drive-up ATM.

hoosiertriangle · 08-03-2008

I believe in Indiana the man could attempt a citizens arrest and using his own gun and instructing an armed felon is a proper use of force. Also, if the victim had followed the felon for the purpose of stopping the felon and arresting him he could have threatened the use of his gun.

You are also permitted to threaten more force than you are legally allowed to bring. The "stop or I'll shoot" is a perfect example. You can threaten to shoot even if you may not have the legal ability to do so. In Indiana you also have the right to stop a forcible felony (of which robbery with a gun qualifies).

An argument could be made that he could have shot the felon even as the felon was leaving the scene.

Bigum1969 · 08-03-2008

I don't have any clue to the laws in Missouri, but if the bad guy did point his gun at the robbery victim, there is probably a good case for self defense.

But, actually confronting the bad guy as he left could complicate things.

In that situation, I'm not sure what I would've done. I know I would of made sure the bad guy didn't come back, but I'm not sure I'd go after him, especially if my family was in the car.

Caleb · 08-11-2008

I thought as soon as the perp no longer shows threats, such as running away or dropping weapon, you can only hold him till police arrives.

08-03-2008	#2 (permalink)
BloodEclipse Sheepdog Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 1,446	It will depend on the state laws. The prosecutor will play a big role too. A case could be made that because he was leaving the threat was no longer there. I'm guessing that a case could also be made that the robbery victim could say "I still felt threatened because he was holding the gun and I wanted to stop him so he didn't get to do this to the next visitor to the ATM." "I was hoping when he saw me armed he would surrender, it was not my intent to shoot the man for robbing me" __________________ Smoke bacon not weed. Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same. Ronald Reagan

08-03-2008	#3 (permalink)
pmpmstrb Marksman Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 388	What exactly is required to perform a citizen's arrest? Could it be used in a situation like this? __________________ Brandon Glock 19 w/ 147gr HST - OC/CC Kel-Tec Pf9 w/ 147gr HST - DCC Mossberg 500 Cruiser Tactical w/ Fiocchi 00 - HD

08-03-2008	#4 (permalink)
turkeykiller Double Lunger Join Date: May 2008 Location: lafayette Posts: 149	He was robed at gun point! Hurray for the older man that shot him, maybe he just saved another life from the next time this scumbag robber went out to rob. __________________ Nothing better than your cold hands in a warm deer carcass on a cold November morning!

08-03-2008	#5 (permalink)
Crystalship1 Jeep XJ Owner & Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 Classic Rider Join Date: May 2008 Location: Indianapolis, IN. Posts: 1,531	Personally... I've got no problem with the man's actions. However, this didn't happen in Texas and I fear for his freedom in this upside-down liberal-infected legal system that they/we have. __________________ Springfield Armory XD.... Like a Glock, only better!!! "Seems like common sense just isn't all that common anymore" "I didn't help Obama get to the Whitehouse...... I voted for Palin!! " Hi-Point firearms... "Slandered by those who have never owned one... Loved by those who do" Don't believe the . Discover the truth: http://hipointtalk.com/ and: www.shootingtimes.com/handgun_reviews/hipoint_100605/

08-03-2008	#6 (permalink)
haldir Marksman Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Goshen Posts: 430	If he had been in rural MO, I would bet he would be okay. Kansas City though, I dunno. Big cities seem to draw a different sort of prosecutor sometimes. Just like up in my area. I think in Elkhart County he would be okay. St. Joseph County, I wouldn't bet either way. __________________ Don't blame me, I voted for Palin. I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive. - Thomas Jefferson I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale. - Thomas Jefferson

08-03-2008	#7 (permalink)
Ri22o Modberator Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Speedway Posts: 2,274	The story was confusing as hell, until I figured out they were using a drive-up ATM.

08-03-2008	#8 (permalink)
hoosiertriangle Plinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Speedway, IN Posts: 96	I believe in Indiana the man could attempt a citizens arrest and using his own gun and instructing an armed felon is a proper use of force. Also, if the victim had followed the felon for the purpose of stopping the felon and arresting him he could have threatened the use of his gun. You are also permitted to threaten more force than you are legally allowed to bring. The "stop or I'll shoot" is a perfect example. You can threaten to shoot even if you may not have the legal ability to do so. In Indiana you also have the right to stop a forcible felony (of which robbery with a gun qualifies). An argument could be made that he could have shot the felon even as the felon was leaving the scene. __________________ "They say the best weapon is one you never have to fire, I prefer the weapon you only need to fire once." --Tony Stark

08-03-2008	#9 (permalink)
Bigum1969 Paranoid and Currently Being Chased Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: SW Indiana Posts: 1,496	I don't have any clue to the laws in Missouri, but if the bad guy did point his gun at the robbery victim, there is probably a good case for self defense. But, actually confronting the bad guy as he left could complicate things. In that situation, I'm not sure what I would've done. I know I would of made sure the bad guy didn't come back, but I'm not sure I'd go after him, especially if my family was in the car. __________________ Audentes fortuna juvet

08-11-2008	#10 (permalink)
Caleb Mr. Gaint Canon Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Columbus, IN Posts: 582	I thought as soon as the perp no longer shows threats, such as running away or dropping weapon, you can only hold him till police arrives. __________________ I'm a constitutionalist and proud of it!

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Man Defends Home - No charges filed.	W9ZEB	Carry Issues and Self Defense	11	06-20-2008 04:39
CCW holder foils bank robbery	Scutter01	General Firearms Discussion	18	06-18-2008 19:24
Business Owner Defends Shop	W9ZEB	Carry Issues and Self Defense	0	06-13-2008 11:47
Gunman kills 2, is stopped by CCW License holder	W9ZEB	Carry Issues and Self Defense	13	05-31-2008 04:33
The wife just said something that made...	baldmax	Break Room	25	05-05-2008 07:35