Michigan Citizen with IN CCW Q's

[hoosiertriangle]

Thanks for the clarification, I wish I was more clear on the statute however.

[ABolt243]

Nor does my home state even have a LTCH law. I do however hold two non-resident licenses and do carry when in states that honor my licenses. Again, I'm not a lawyer, but it is my understanding that when carrying in any state, you carry according to the laws of the state you are in, regardless of the state your license was issued from.

If you follow what has been said here, you could bring your IN license to IL and carry according to IN laws. Unfortunately, I don't think that will work. Going further, how can IN troopers be expected to know MI law and enforce it in IN??

Last reference, in the 2007 edition of the Traveler's Guide to the Firearms Laws of the Fifty States by J. Scott Kappas, on page two he says: "When carrying concealed outside of one's vehicle in a state that provides reciprocity, the traveler should be aware that, in most instances, he carries subject to the restictions imposed on concealed carry in that state."

I'll bet someone checks in here soon that knows for sure.

AB

My take on the Statute:

I think that the statute is saying that IN will recognize any other license, regardless of what is required for the holder to qualify for that license. I.E., some licenses require fingerprints, some classes, some live fire training. But even if the non-IN license is issued under less restrictive rules than IN, like VT or AK, they are still recognized.

Make sense??

[hoosiertriangle]

IANALY (I Am Not A Lawyer Yet), though in law school. My intuition points towards ABolts opinion of the statute.

Importing an entire other state/countries carry law on just a partial phrase is alot to do for a statute. Saying Indiana will recognize your license so long as you could get in your state makes a great deal more sense to me.

[kludge]

Quote from Indiana Handgun Law - Second Edition by Bryan L. Ciyou, Esq.

... such foreign permits are recognized in Indiana only according to their terms thereof, but what are such terms? For instance, if an Indiana Licensee with a qualified license was carrying with his license for purposes other than hunting or target practice in a state with the same statutory language, how would this be determined as a violation of the law?

He doesn't mention any case law (if there was case law it would probably be in the book as he has case law examples for nearly everything else), but my reading of the law and his explanation leads me to believe that if your state has a "must be concelaed" law or a "51%" law (carry in a bar) it still applies to you while you are in Indiana.

Also both of you are right in that the Indiana law also applies. Another quote from the book uses a driver's license analogy.

... it also requires that the Licensee obtain a working understanding of that reciprocal state's laws... Like a driver's license, the Licensee follows the law of the state in which he is engaging in recprocal carry.

[ABolt243]

Originally Posted by kludge

Quote from Indiana Handgun Law - Second Edition by Bryan L. Ciyou, Esq.



He doesn't mention any case law (if there was case law it would probably be in the book as he has case law examples for nearly everything else), but my reading of the law and his explanation leads me to believe that if your state has a "must be concelaed" law or a "51%" law (carry in a bar) it still applies to you while you are in Indiana.

Also both of you are right in that the Indiana law also applies. Another quote from the book uses a driver's license analogy.

So you're saying that your IN LEO's will know and enforce not only IN's law, but also the law of all the other 47 states that have carry laws?? Isn't that a little much to expect of them?

I'll continue to follow the laws of the state that I'm in that honor the license that I have. I don't have a sign on my back that say's "I'm from IL carrying on a PA license" so how will anyone know what rules I"m supposed to follow?? I'm afraid I can't follow the logic of your interpretation of the law. No offense meant, you do what you feel you need to do. I'm a guest here and certainly don't want to cause trouble. I'd say a State's Attorney from IN could give you a definitive answer.

Have a good day, carry always, be safe!
AB

[Episcopus]

Originally Posted by ABolt243

So you're saying that your IN LEO's will know and enforce not only IN's law, but also the law of all the other 47 states that have carry laws?? Isn't that a little much to expect of them?

I'll continue to follow the laws of the state that I'm in that honor the license that I have. I don't have a sign on my back that say's "I'm from IL carrying on a PA license" so how will anyone know what rules I"m supposed to follow?? I'm afraid I can't follow the logic of your interpretation of the law. No offense meant, you do what you feel you need to do. I'm a guest here and certainly don't want to cause trouble. I'd say a State's Attorney from IN could give you a definitive answer.

Have a good day, carry always, be safe!
AB

I don't think anyone would expect LEO to know the laws of every other state which issues permits. However, it would be pretty easy for them to get on the radio and ask someone to find out really quickly. I imagine most posts have contact numbers for at least the other States nearby. On the other hand, this is assuming that they care at all. Indiana has pretty liberal carry laws, so you have probably done something more than just carry if you are getting police attention. In most places of the State, anyway.

I think the statute probably means that if your out of state license specifies concealed, you have to conceal. If it allows open, you can go open. But it could mean something else entirely.

[CarmelHP]

IAALBINYL (I am a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer). I believe the statutory language refers to restrictions such as target only, hunting only, employment only or only certain firearms versus unrestricted licenses and permits. That's the only reasonable reading I can conceive of.

[kludge]

I believe that is also a reasonable reading.

To further disagree with myself, how can Indiana prosecute you for Michigan's laws (carry in a church for instance)?

I guess it all depends on who is prosecuting you, and if they decide that you weren't carrying "according to the terms" they will slap a misdemenor/felony charge on you for carrying without a license.

I tried once to send questions to the AG office, and they referred me to the ISP. The ISP person who answers firearms e-mails, after not being able to answer the questions, gave me the name and number in my first post.

I didn't call. I wanted it in writing. The more I read the Indiana handgun laws the more questions I have.

[Episcopus]

Originally Posted by kludge

To further disagree with myself, how can Indiana prosecute you for Michigan's laws (carry in a church for instance)?

I guess it all depends on who is prosecuting you, and if they decide that you weren't carrying "according to the terms" they will slap a misdemenor/felony charge on you for carrying without a license.

Bingo! You wouldn't be prosecuted for violating Michigan's laws. You would be prosecuted for not having a permit/license/whatever term you want to use. You would be considered unlicensed because you were doing something your license didn't allow. Same as carrying in Indiana for general purposes on a restricted Indiana license.

[joedekock]

Thanks for the help and all the info guys! The wife and I blew plenty of money at the Lighthouse place outlet mall and had a great lunch at Carson's with some home made root beer!

No Problems with carrying, and not a single sign posted on any shop or store prohibiting fire arms. It was too hot though to carry my new S&W 637 I bought Thursday. I bought it with the intention to wear it IWB. Being as hot as it was, I was not going to wear a t-shirt under a t-shirt to keep the pistol from having sweaty skin contact. So the Kel-Tec P3AT rode nicely in its pocket holster in my shorts pocket.

All in all, a great day in Indiana today! (Except for the 7% sales tax... you guys gotta get on Evan Bayh about that)!