Did I commit a Class D Felony - or not? - Page 2

quiggly · 09-08-2008

I have always wondered about places like the zoo. There is always a school function there? Since you don't know there is a school group using it as a school function does that make it okay?

Maybe this has been posted but I could not find it anywhere.

Indy_Guy_77 · 09-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbjenks

Nursery or Pre school, church "Sunday School" etc. When one attends a worship service IF there is a church school in the building then one has committed a Felony if armed even with a license. Stupid law!!!! Our prosecutor informed me that their office will charge me if I violate that law. The only exception is to obtain permission from the Board/Superintendent. Like that is going to happen.

Not entirely true... That prosecutor is a dolt.

Just a "sunday school" isn't grounds for prosecution.

What if they only offer "sunday school" classes for little old ladies?

But if the church has a licensed daycare/preschool/school then yes, big no-no. Even if/when school isn't in session. Unless you receive permission from those who are in charge to act as "security" of sorts.

Dr. Dave · 09-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbjenks

Nursery or Pre school, church "Sunday School" etc. When one attends a worship service IF there is a church school in the building then one has committed a Felony if armed even with a license. Stupid law!!!! Our prosecutor informed me that their office will charge me if I violate that law. The only exception is to obtain permission from the Board/Superintendent. Like that is going to happen.

I like to make things difficult...what if you also happen to be the Pastor or Assistant Pastor?

wbjenks · 09-08-2008

I am the Pastor!!!!! "School property" is the issue. A failure to understand what constitutes school property does not create a criminal defense. According to Bryan Ciyou, a specialist on CCW, even an informal type of school could convict a parishioner found carrying a handgun to Sunday church if the church has any type of school. I don't want to be the test case! Hamilton County prosecutor says NO!!!!! I guess I need to not only be ordained but sworn in as an LEO. What a mess.

wbjenks · 09-08-2008

After more research, a "school function" is not defined by state statute. OK to carry at the Zoo, Museum, etc.? What about Conner Prairie? There is no definition of what is a school function. The liability is on the License holder. US! If a school is at the event site then we could have a problem.

Coach · 09-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbjenks

Nursery or Pre school, church "Sunday School" etc. When one attends a worship service IF there is a church school in the building then one has committed a Felony if armed even with a license. Stupid law!!!! Our prosecutor informed me that their office will charge me if I violate that law. The only exception is to obtain permission from the Board/Superintendent. Like that is going to happen.

(disclaimer) I am not a lawyer. But I have seen a lot of Perry Mason reruns.

If it is a church school, and therefore private, and you are carrying legally say on Sunday at a church service. How in the hell are they going to charge you for being on private property and legally armed, and not at a school? I think what the prosecutor says and what he/she can do may be two different things. I like your chances with a good lawyer and a jury. But that is just me. It would be expensive and exhausting.

kludge · 09-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbjenks

The only exception is to obtain permission from the Board/Superintendent. Like that is going to happen.

...

I am the Pastor!!!!!

You're the pastor and you can't get permission from the board??

Bill of Rights · 09-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by wbjenks

After more research, a "school function" is not defined by state statute. OK to carry at the Zoo, Museum, etc.? What about Conner Prairie? There is no definition of what is a school function. The liability is on the License holder. US! If a school is at the event site then we could have a problem.

There is no definition of a "school function", true, but I did find these two definitions.

Quote:

IC 20-33-8-2
"Educational function"
Sec. 2. As used in this chapter, "educational function" means the performance by a school corporation or its officers or employees of an act or a series of acts in carrying out school purposes.
As added by P.L.1-2005, SEC.17.

<A name=IC20-33-8-4>IC 20-33-8-4
"School purposes"
Sec. 4. As used in this chapter, "school purposes" refers to the purposes for which a school corporation operates, including the following:
(1) To promote knowledge and learning generally.
(2) To maintain an orderly and effective educational system.
(3) To take any action under the authority granted to school corporations and their governing bodies by IC 20-26-5 or by any other statute.
As added by P.L.1-2005, SEC.17.

So yes, the proverbial zoo trip could be no-carry, based on you not being aware of a school trip there that day. Of course, most judges would likely take intent into account, but there is nothing in the law to mandate they do so.

Hope that helps!

Blessings,
B

Bill of Rights · 09-08-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach

(disclaimer) I am not a lawyer. But I have seen a lot of Perry Mason reruns.

If it is a church school, and therefore private, and you are carrying legally say on Sunday at a church service. How in the hell are they going to charge you for being on private property and legally armed, and not at a school?

Because the law does not define a school in terms of there being classes going on at the time of the offense. If you have a flat tire and pull into a school parking lot at midnight in July, you have still committed a class D felony in the eyes of the law.

Like you, IANAL and TINLA, because IDSIAHIELN (I didn't sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night).

Blessings,
B

wbjenks · 09-08-2008

Correct! "School Function" is not the same thing. IF you carry at a school function, known or unknown, you are in violation of Indiana law. Do you want to be the test case?

The church board will not accept legal liability for anyone for anything. I am on my own. I have to carry my own insurance for Clergy malpractice. A sign of the times I am afraid. Render unto Caezar the things that are Caezar's and unto God, the things that are God's. (Jesus Christ)

09-08-2008	#14 (permalink)
wbjenks Plinker Join Date: May 2008 Location: Noblesville Posts: 36	I am the Pastor!!!!! "School property" is the issue. A failure to understand what constitutes school property does not create a criminal defense. According to Bryan Ciyou, a specialist on CCW, even an informal type of school could convict a parishioner found carrying a handgun to Sunday church if the church has any type of school. I don't want to be the test case! Hamilton County prosecutor says NO!!!!! I guess I need to not only be ordained but sworn in as an LEO. What a mess. Last edited by wbjenks; 09-08-2008 at 13:56. Reason: Additional information

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09-08-2008	#11 (permalink)
quiggly Plinker Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Noblesville Posts: 243	I have always wondered about places like the zoo. There is always a school function there? Since you don't know there is a school group using it as a school function does that make it okay? Maybe this has been posted but I could not find it anywhere.

09-08-2008	#15 (permalink)
wbjenks Plinker Join Date: May 2008 Location: Noblesville Posts: 36	After more research, a "school function" is not defined by state statute. OK to carry at the Zoo, Museum, etc.? What about Conner Prairie? There is no definition of what is a school function. The liability is on the License holder. US! If a school is at the event site then we could have a problem.

09-08-2008	#20 (permalink)
wbjenks Plinker Join Date: May 2008 Location: Noblesville Posts: 36	Correct! "School Function" is not the same thing. IF you carry at a school function, known or unknown, you are in violation of Indiana law. Do you want to be the test case? The church board will not accept legal liability for anyone for anything. I am on my own. I have to carry my own insurance for Clergy malpractice. A sign of the times I am afraid. Render unto Caezar the things that are Caezar's and unto God, the things that are God's. (Jesus Christ)