NFA Conversation

[Wild Deuce]

This is my first foray into the NFA Forum ... so, please go easy on me. The following conversation took place recently. Just looking for more opinions/thoughts on the discussion.


Me:

I don't own any NFA items ...

Guy PMs me about the EoTech I am selling with a trade offer. Forgetting trade value issues, I have a question about legalities:

He is offering me a 10.5" AR upper for my EoTech.

I told him that I am not ready to get into NFA items at the time.

He says that it is currently a pistol so no worries about legalities >>> no paperwork needed
​

Can Joe Shmo just buy a sub-16" upper and say it's for a pistol without doing the tax stamp thing? The serialized lower makes the rifle/pistol determination? If Uncle Sammy stopped by to visit and saw that everyone of my lowers had a collapsible stock on it, that would mean a trip to club fed, wouldn't it?

Reply from INGO friend:

My understanding is that he is correct. As long as you do not put a lower with a stock or have it stored with one you should be good. If you did it, you would probably want to make sure you had a pistol lower to put on it until such time as you decided to make it a SBR.

Like anything to do with the .gov, it is a shady area.

Me:

That was my issue ... I would be afraid to have it in the house or in the safe without a pistol lower in sight. Thanks for the reply.

Just for the record, the upper never gets "registered," correct? It's always the lower that gets designated as a SBR? ... What if I stuck an 18" upper on it later on?

Reply from INGO friend:

Correct. The lower is the registered piece. I guess you would have a SBR with a long barrel. You would at least be able to have a short barrel in the house without fear of the law.

Me:

Ok ... final hypothetical question ... I PROMISE ...

I could have a single tax stamp for a single registered SBR Lower and have six or seven sub-sixteen inch uppers in the house without worry? ... What if I have six or seven other lowers (without any uppers on them ... or even if I did have uppers on them)?

I can see how owning NFA items could be an invitation to a legal disaster if you don't know what you are doing.

Reply from INGO Friend:

That one I am not sure of. You might start a thread in the NFA section and see what people say.

 

[Dog1]

You can have an as many uppers for one SBR as you want, with as many different calibers.

 

[Fire824]

Yes you can own a 10.5 inch upper as long as it's on a pistol lower, once you add a stock then it is considered an NFA item and you'd need a stamp.. But an ar pistol is clean and clear, and also yes you can have a single stamp ar lower with multiple uppers.. The lower is the NFA item not the upper when it comes to sbr's

 

[Bfish]

Is it true that you must have the trust names engraved on the uppers or just the lower? I wouldn't mind cleaning that up for myself. I am about to take the NFA plunge soon!

 

[Wild Deuce]

What about owning a 10.5" upper without a single AR pistol lower in sight (but all the lowers have 16" uppers on them)?

Yes you can own a 10.5 inch upper as long as it's on a pistol lower ...

This makes it sound like I must own a pistol lower in order to possess a 10.5" upper.

 

[Beowulf]

What about owning a 10.5" upper without a single AR pistol lower in sight (but all the lowers have 16" uppers on them)?



This makes it sound like I must own a pistol lower in order to possess a 10.5" upper.

It is totally legal to own a 10.5 upper. You just don't want the ATF to argue you had the INTENT to build an illegal SBR. Not owning an AR rifle lower or having an AR pistol lower covers you in that regard

 

[Beowulf]

Is it true that you must have the trust names engraved on the uppers or just the lower? I wouldn't mind cleaning that up for myself. I am about to take the NFA plunge soon!

The part that is considered to be the firearm itself is what must be engraved.

For ARs, that is the lower. For FN FALs, for example, it's the upper receiver.

 

[tatic05]

Do you have a stripped lower? One that has never had a stock on it? If so I would think you are good. Correct more knowledge people than me?

 

[MontereyC6]

Do you have a stripped lower? One that has never had a stock on it? If so I would think you are good. Correct more knowledge people than me?

If you don't have a rifle buffer tube/stock laying around you would be ok. If your going to get in to the nfa game, IMHO go ahead and spend the ~$25 and get a pistol buffer tube. I have 3 sbr's and all of them spent time as a pistol prior to the stamp arriving, the next build that I'm going to start shortly will too.

 

[Wild Deuce]

*sigh

BTW ... Thanks a ton for the replies! Much appreciated.

 

[DarrenL]

Can someone clarify the mention of engraving a trust name on a firearm? Don't believe I have ever seen anyone do that.

thanks,
Darren

 

[MontereyC6]

Can someone clarify the mention of engraving a trust name on a firearm? Don't believe I have ever seen anyone do that.

thanks,
Darren

The name of the maker goes on the receiver along with city and state. If its a trust, its the name of your trust. The key to that is to keep it short. If you are an individual as the maker, it would be your name.

 

[loudpedal]

If its a trust, its the name of your trust. The key to that is to keep it short. If you are an individual as the maker, it would be your name.

Can someone clarify the value of keeping the name of the trust short?

 

[Booya]

It's not illegal to own a short barrel upper, whether you have rifles, don't have rifles, have pistols (AR), or don't have pistols. It's not illegal to own it at all. So you want to build an AR pistol... You bought the upper first, found a deal you couldn't pass up. Wanna build an SBR, bought the upper first. Just don't build the gun. Don't construct the lower, unless it's a pistol. The Internet is rife with confusion on this topic.

At the end of the day it's not illegal to own a short upper. It's illegal to build an unregistered NFA firearm. Don't do that and you'll be fine.

**Edit - preferably know what you want to build and prepare the lower as soon as you can. Leave the lower stripped or make it a pistol lower right away. If you want to make an SBR, pistol tube it while you wait for the stamp...

 

[Bfish]

The part that is considered to be the firearm itself is what must be engraved.

For ARs, that is the lower. For FN FALs, for example, it's the upper receiver.

Thank you sir!

 

[Force10]

Can someone clarify the value of keeping the name of the trust short?

Hypothetical - You create a trust for your NFA stuff, specifically items you intend to "build" (Form 1) yourself. (Placing a bbl <16" on a AR lower with a stock is considered manufacturing a SBR). You are torn between two names for you trust:

Option 1: Bill's Trust
Option 2: Billy Bob's Bad-A** Boomstick Trust

Any firearm you manufacture (or "build") must be engraved with the name of the manufacturer (your trust) and city and state of manufacture. Bill's Trust would be easier to engrave and take up substantially less real estate than the other option.