Class III or 07/02 dealers with registered HK sear in stock

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  • Beowulf

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    Since this worked out really well when I was looking for my M16, I thought I would reach out to the INGO community and see if I can get a repeat now that I'm looking an HK sear.

    I thought I would be happy with just the M16, but after getting the chance to shoot my 3 HK clones with a post-sample sear in them, I realized that they are a ton of fun as well.

    Since I already have the hosts, I'm just looking at getting a sear or trigger pack (though if the price is good, I won't turn away a deal on one bundled with a host). I'm trying to stay below $25k if at all possible, which is getting tricky in the HK world. I'm putting together the funds and I'll probably be selling my M10/45 and assorted uppers, along with thinking of selling some of my nicer Class I stuff (like my SCAR 16s, Romak PSL, Tavor, and some other stuff). This is definitely going to thin down my collection, but I figure the machineguns are never going to get cheaper, unless a miracle happens and the Hughes Amendment gets knocked down.

    So, anyone know of any reputable Class III or 07/02 dealers with a registered HK sear in stock? I saw Midwest Tactical has one on Gunbroker now, but of course, I'm sure his price is very high (Buy It now of $29k, with an unknown reserve price).
     

    Hop

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    The last one I saw came in a Michael's Machine host gun & was down at ACME in Seymour. It's worth making a call I guess.
     

    Leadeye

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    Heard there were some legal issues with ATF classification of these, might not hurt to check it out before parting with any cash.
     

    Beowulf

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    Heard there were some legal issues with ATF classification of these, might not hurt to check it out before parting with any cash.

    Sears? Or Michaels Machine hosts?

    Acme never returned my inquiry. So, I'm still on the hunt if anyone knows of one somewhere (even private party).
     

    Hop

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    After seeing how the prices have rocketed up since 2012 it might be easier and cheaper to get an SOT/class 3 license, find a dealer pre-sample, drop the SOT and keep it.
     

    KJQ6945

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    Yeah, one was listed, but was actually sold a while ago and the other one just sold. I'll keep my eyes peeled.

    I would have told you about that one a couple of weeks ago if I'd have known you were shopping out of state. Will definitely let you know if I see any others.
    I've got a couple of hosts, so, finding YOU a sear is my best chance of shooting mine. :laugh:
     

    Beowulf

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    After seeing how the prices have rocketed up since 2012 it might be easier and cheaper to get an SOT/class 3 license, find a dealer pre-sample, drop the SOT and keep it.

    Trust me, I thought about it. The piece that most people forget (and that a local 07/02 pointed out to me) is that while $500 a year and having to do set hours for the 07/02 license isn't that bad, there is also a stupid State Dept requirement to have licensing for Import/Export of military equipment, even if you have no intention of doing that, which then rockets your cost up to about $3,000 a year, with a huge amount of red tape. So, while that still a lot cheaper, you'll still be paying that same $3,000 a year forever to maintain your post-sample collection.

    Now, if you get a Class 3, I think you are exempt from that State Dept fee, but then you need a Law Enforcement letter to buy anything.
     

    Beowulf

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    I would have told you about that one a couple of weeks ago if I'd have known you were shopping out of state. Will definitely let you know if I see any others.
    I've got a couple of hosts, so, finding YOU a sear is my best chance of shooting mine. :laugh:

    Well, I'm more than happy to schedule some full auto fun time with different hosts if I get one. Maybe we need someone with some nice land to take up the mantle from Lovemywoods and start up NFA day again. I would, except I think my HOA and IMPD might frown on a full auto shoot in the postage stamp size yard behind my townhouse. :):
     

    snorko

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    Heard there were some legal issues with ATF classification of these, might not hurt to check it out before parting with any cash.

    Sears? Or Michaels Machine hosts?

    Acme never returned my inquiry. So, I'm still on the hunt if anyone knows of one somewhere (even private party).


    I briefly read something about this. ATF is threatening to reclassify registered parts which were A) manufactured BEFORE the cutoff but B) paperwork not filed until after cutoff as post samples. Never a concern before but it's the ATF.
     

    17 squirrel

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    Sears? Or Michaels Machine hosts?

    Acme never returned my inquiry. So, I'm still on the hunt if anyone knows of one somewhere (even private party).

    No, sears from Volmer,Fleming, Amherst Arms and others that the registration was not done the day of or the next day after being manufactured.
    . Lots and lots of transferable had their registration done a day late,
    ( on may 20 ) And for some folks that might be a problem. Instead of a fully transferable you actually might have or unknowingly buy a postie sample. And atf is gonna make you decide to forfeit it to them or quickly get yourself a FFL and LEO letter so you can keep it.
     

    Beowulf

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    No, sears from Volmer,Fleming, Amherst Arms and others that the registration was not done the day of or the next day after being manufactured.
    . Lots and lots of transferable had their registration done a day late,
    ( on may 20 ) And for some folks that might be a problem. Instead of a fully transferable you actually might have or unknowingly buy a postie sample. And atf is gonna make you decide to forfeit it to them or quickly get yourself a FFL and LEO letter so you can keep it.

    Hmm, good to know. I'll make sure to check dates, just in case.
     

    Hop

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    How? Unless you submit a FOIA I don't think there's a way to get a manufactured date from a sear. I might have a Volmer laying around somewhere. :whistle:
     

    17 squirrel

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    You might start a data base of manufactures and serial # along with when the original owner did the transfer ( if possible ). Also talk to ffls that were in business back into the 70s and see what the serial number ranges were for different manufacturers.
    This ATF thing goes back to the eightys easily with RDIAS and DIAS manufactured before a certain date. Be careful what you buy. What some say is fine, may not be fine.

    Here's alittle more info.

    The devices were originally unregulated, but in 1981 ATF declared them to be machineguns if possessed in conjunction with the other parts needed to make a conversion, but the agency made their new determination apply only to DIAS’s manufactured after November 1, 1981. Now ATF is apparently using the records of a man who openly sold the devices for decades to track down purchasers and take their property as contraband – with the real possibility of then prosecuting those people.

    One of the reasons gun owners tend to be completely opposed to the passage of any new gun laws – no matter how innocuous or reasonable seeming – is the erratic history of interpretation and enforcement of the current gun laws. This is also why I cringe every time I hear someone who supposedly supports gun rights – from politicians to the head of the NRA – calling for the feds to “enforce the laws already on the books.” The fact is, the gun laws that are already on the books are a labyrinth of confusion and booby-traps full of open-ended mandates, ambiguous definitions, and unbridled bureaucratic discretion. Many innocent people have had their lives and livelihoods completely destroyed when federal agencies have decided to “enforce the laws already on the books.”




    The law that was on the books up until 1981 said that a DIAS was just a chunk of metal unless it, along with at least 3 other “full-auto” parts, was actually installed in a gun without prior ATF approval. Then in 1981, ATF bureaucrats, at their own discretion and under their own authority, redefined them as machineguns, but in their decree, they included the following exception:

    “With respect to the machinegun classification of the auto sear under the National Firearms Act, pursuant to 26 U.S.C. 7805(b), this ruling will not be applied to auto sears manufactured before November 1, 1981. Accordingly, auto sears manufactured on or after November 1, 1981, will be subject to all the provisions of the National Firearms Act, and 27 C.F.R. Part 179.”

    For the following 30+ years, it was widely understood that any DIAS manufactured prior to November 1, 1981, was “grandfathered” and not subject to the rules regulating machineguns, and that it could be legally possessed so long as the possessor did not also possess either an AR15 rifle into which the auto sear could be installed, or the other necessary M16 conversion parts. The belief in the legality of DIAS possession was so prevalent that a variety of sources continued publicly selling drop-in auto sears that they claimed were manufactured before ATF’s arbitrary cutoff date. Such DIAS’s were widely known as “Pre-81 Drop-In Auto Sears” and were routinely advertised in various firearms publications and on-line auction sites.

    In 1986, the Firearm Owners’ Protection Act was passed with an amendment forbidding the future civilian transfer of any machinegun manufactured after May 19, 1986. There was also a provision strengthening the definition of machinegun to include any part designed or intended exclusively for the purpose of converting a gun into a machinegun. These two provisions meant that possession of a DIAS – even without a gun to put it in or the other needed parts – was a felony, and that a DIAS could only be legally registered by someone specially licensed to manufacture machineguns for the military and law enforcement – and then could only be possessed by a military or law enforcement agency.

    The belief that pre-81 DIAS’s were exempt continued in spite of a ruling in 1998 from the US Court of Appeals for the 7th Circuit which declared that the ATF did not have the authority to “grandfather” or exempt pre-81 DIAS’s. That determination was not widely reported, nor was there any apparent effort on the part of ATF to enforce the ruling. In May of this year, the determination of the 7th Circuit was echoed, and expanded upon by judges in the Court of Appeals for the 6th Circuit. I wrote a column at the time warning that not only DIAS’s, but a variety of other firearms and devices that have long been understood to be fully legal, are actually completely illegal (at least in those Circuits) and that the owners of these devices everywhere are in jeopardy.

    The fact that the same conclusion has been reached in two different Circuits means that it is very likely that the other Circuit Courts will follow the same line of reasoning and reject any claims of exemptions based on prior ATF determinations.

    Now it appears that ATF might be endeavoring to expedite that process as I am aware of attempts by the agency to locate and confiscate pre-81 DIAS devices in the jurisdictions of both the 1st Circuit and the 3rd Circuit.

    Thousands of people are now at extreme risk for possessing items that ATF has explicitly told them it is legal for them to have.

    Confiscations of drop-in auto sears could be just the tip of the iceberg, as ATF could start going after other “grandfathered” items such as open-bolt MAC and KG type pistols, Browning “G Series” Light Rifles, and certain other guns and devices. Anyone who owns one of these devices should seek qualified legal counsel immediately. Anyone who is contacted by ATF inquiring about such devices should refer them to counsel and also contact The Firearms Coalition to let us know about it.

    As I have said before, while the rhetoric surrounding gun control always talks about targeting criminals and public safety, the reality is that enforcement of these laws is always aimed at regular gun owners whose only crime is believing that they are committing no crime.



    Read more: ATF Confiscating Drop-In Auto-Sears
     

    Beowulf

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    How? Unless you submit a FOIA I don't think there's a way to get a manufactured date from a sear. I might have a Volmer laying around somewhere. :whistle:

    Easier said than done, of course. If the original transfer paperwork is around, then you can see if it was transferred before the May 19 date (if so, the sear must predate that). Other than that, get the serial number and try to put together the mess of internet lore around the manufacturing of sears and see if we can figure it out.
     

    Leadeye

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    Lots of $1k per hour cash to be made by beltway consulting firms staffed by ex justice department people finding new interpretations in gun laws. The meter runs every day and you pay for it.
     

    Beowulf

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    I looked at Autoweapons.com. They have a bunch of sear/host combos for sale (10 or so of them).

    I don't know who runs that shop, but whoever it is seems delusional. First, he only replies in all caps, in barely coherent sentences. Then he will only answer questions about specific guns referenced by his part number. So, I sent him nearly a dozen individual emails, referencing the individual packages (all HK hosts with sears, most actual HKs, though some were high end clones). MP5s, SP89s, G3s, etc. Not a single package (host and sear) was less than $44,000. That's nearly double market price for a sear and none of those hosts are worth an extra $20k.

    I guess he's playing the long game and just sitting on all of them until they are actually worth what he is charging. What a joke.
     
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