Is it even worth doing a trust anymore?

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  • avcautoinc

    Marksman
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    Ive been filling out a form 1 for a cz scorpion im sbr'ing and i have three people on my trust. This is the first item i've wanted to put on the nfa list since the 41f (normally efiled) and it seems like such a pain. Having to fill out 15 sheets of paper (wtf) for me and others on my trust takes a while when this is the first time filling out on paper. i need a suppressor next and i may just skip the trust. Ok rant over.....for now.
     

    ACC

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    KUJO & The Geek hit the nail on the head. Yes....some of the benefits of trusts are now gone with 41F. However, if you have friends/family that you want to be able to possess your NFA items, then you want a trust. Also...as an estate planning/will document, having members of you trust allows them to take possession/ownership of the NFA items upon your death without having to pay any additional tax/transfer fees.
     

    Psode27

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    I googled "Trump's first 100 days" and included was un-doing Obama's gun-related exec orders. While I know these articles don't mean anything, maybe there is some truth to it and 41f will disappear....??
     

    T.Lex

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    I googled "Trump's first 100 days" and included was un-doing Obama's gun-related exec orders. While I know these articles don't mean anything, maybe there is some truth to it and 41f will disappear....??
    Not sure where you got your info, but 41F was not an executive order.
     

    rvb

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    KUJO & The Geek hit the nail on the head. Yes....some of the benefits of trusts are now gone with 41F. However, if you have friends/family that you want to be able to possess your NFA items, then you want a trust. Also...as an estate planning/will document, having members of you trust allows them to take possession/ownership of the NFA items upon your death without having to pay any additional tax/transfer fees.

    They don't have to pay taxes / fees when you die, regardless...
    -rvb
     

    CampingJosh

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    Indeed. But not in the first 100 days.

    How long would it take? I know that there is a required period for public comments, even if they have no intention of considering those comments. I have it in my head that it only has to be 90 days, but it has been several years since I was paying close attention to a particular rule change.
     

    T.Lex

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    How long would it take? I know that there is a required period for public comments, even if they have no intention of considering those comments. I have it in my head that it only has to be 90 days, but it has been several years since I was paying close attention to a particular rule change.

    Honestly, it would take a year IMHO. Too many people/institutions would demand input/consideration/a seat at the table. And I don't see this being a "first 100 days" type issue.
     

    aclark

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    I don't have a trust (yet...?) but when 41f was being considered, someone had an idea, and it made me think. The idea was that if you are creating a new trust after 41f you could put just yourself on the trust and collect all the items you wanted. Then when you were "finished" (not that it ever happens), you could add the other trust members to the documents and they wouldn't have to go through the process. Would this work? If so, it would be a nice way for us NFA noobs to proceed post-41f.

    Other way would to be to take everyone off when you're getting a new item, then relist them.
     

    T.Lex

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    It is not yet clear what impact amendments to the trustee to include (or exclude) certain people will have.

    Depending on how the trust is written, it is pretty straightforward to do. But I have not yet seen guidance from the ATF on what their expectations are.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    Threshold question: "Why am I doing this trust?"

    If there is no answer for this question, you don't need a trust.

    Far too many people are having trusts to have a trust. 2003, 300 trusts. 2012, 36,000 trusts.

    At the NRA CLE in Louisville last April I sat next to a couple from Austin. Their entire practice . . . that's all they did, was NFA trusts.

    I do not have any of my Title II (or Title I) stuff in a trust.
     

    HK Guy

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    Some of the smart guys over at Subguns.com frown on trusts if you can get a sign off. I can get one (though no longer needed) and I went back and forth over it and ended up putting a couple of items on one. My main reason was so that the wife / trustee could have access to the items. Is she ever going to shoot a gun without me, let alone a NFA item? Nope, but I feel better about a trust.
     

    KJQ6945

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    Aug 5, 2012
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    Threshold question: "Why am I doing this trust?"

    If there is no answer for this question, you don't need a trust.

    Far too many people are having trusts to have a trust. 2003, 300 trusts. 2012, 36,000 trusts.

    At the NRA CLE in Louisville last April I sat next to a couple from Austin. Their entire practice . . . that's all they did, was NFA trusts.

    I do not have any of my Title II (or Title I) stuff in a trust.
    Agreed. Most people don't need a trust, especially now days.
    Some of the smart guys over at Subguns.com frown on trusts if you can get a sign off. I can get one (though no longer needed) and I went back and forth over it and ended up putting a couple of items on one. My main reason was so that the wife / trustee could have access to the items. Is she ever going to shoot a gun without me, let alone a NFA item? Nope, but I feel better about a trust.


    Same here. I'm about 50/50 on my items between individual/trust. I would prefer they were all on the trust for the wife's sake. But, honestly, I don't think it's that much of an issue. :dunno:
     

    RobbyMaQ

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    Post 41f it would appear you need to notify the atf of trustee changes. I was unsure if this existed pre41f, and called to find out on a pending SBR. The agent told me it didn't apply to pre 41f

    I've since filed for a Suppressor, and it really sucked getting fingerprints, photos, etc for all 4 people in my trust. But I managed to get it done. Good news is, all that hoop jumping is good for 2 years from the approval date of the suppressor.

    Better news is, if suppressors get nixed from atf, I can get a refund (and hopefully all my paperwork will still be good for 2 years)
     

    Thegeek

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    IANAL: The trust can have anything on it, not just NFA items. I understand the flaw inherent to it since there's no checks and balances over who is added after the fact, but that doesn't automatically give the ATF power over the trust. Pertaining to the members, my trust is bound by the conditions set forth within the trust. It is a legally binding document that the ATF can't just change. However, they can change the rule that all members of the trust must submit for new approvals. For mine, changing the members is an amendment. The ATF reviewer can see if I routinely remove and add members for the purposes of approvals.

    I also just watched a video from MAC stating all his NFA items were done as an individual. I assume he's got quite a collection at this point, so when he passes, the value of that collection is lost to his heirs unless they want to pay $200 per item. This whole transfer tax is a racket.
     
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