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Converting an SBR back to a regular rifle if you move to a non-SBR state
- Thread starter MattCFII
- Start date
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VUPDblue
Silencers Have NEVER Been Illegal !
You can return it to title 1 status by notifying batfe in writing and having them remove it from the NFA registry. You would also have to return the barrel length to 16" or longer by a legal method of either replacing it or permanently attaching an extension of some sort, like a flash hider.
The ATF position at the end of 2009, from my take on this letter, was that you could add the permanent barrel extension and then treat the rifle as a Tittle 1 (aka regular rifle).
http://www.issmc.com/atf/sbr/atf-sbr-letter-dec-11-2009.pdf
Notifying the ATF, while not a bad idea appears to be an option, at least at the end of 2009. Now if I was going to ever sell said rifle and/or was most likely not going to move out of MI/IL, would do the letter now just to keep my life simpler.
Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, please contact one to answer any legal questions. The letter posted, may have value to the person who sent it in, but is for information only purpose for everyone else, lastly sending in the letter at most costs you $200 if you ever wish to re-SBR the rifle.
http://www.issmc.com/atf/sbr/atf-sbr-letter-dec-11-2009.pdf
Notifying the ATF, while not a bad idea appears to be an option, at least at the end of 2009. Now if I was going to ever sell said rifle and/or was most likely not going to move out of MI/IL, would do the letter now just to keep my life simpler.
Disclaimers: I am not a lawyer, please contact one to answer any legal questions. The letter posted, may have value to the person who sent it in, but is for information only purpose for everyone else, lastly sending in the letter at most costs you $200 if you ever wish to re-SBR the rifle.
Indy_Guy_77
Grandmaster
- Apr 30, 2008
- 16,576
- 48
OP: Double check on if MI still doesn't allow SBRs.
They just VERY VERY VERY recently accepted suppressors as legal; they may very well have accepted SBRs as well.
-J-
They just VERY VERY VERY recently accepted suppressors as legal; they may very well have accepted SBRs as well.
-J-
Just curious: If I was to SBR a 10/22 legally, stamp and all, then move to a state that didn't allow them, so I change the barrel out on it to a factory carbine barrel... it would still be registered as a SBR, but it would not be one by definition. Would I have to notify ATF of anything other than that I'd moved?
That is, I don't have a rifle with a short barrel in one of those places, just one that can legally have a short barrel put on it if I'm in a place that doesn't prohibit it...I'm wondering if this would require a new tax stamp to "re-SBR" it. I'd think not, but the hypothetical struck me as interesting. I'm just wondering if it would have to come off the registry as well as be made "factory-length", or if the latter is all that's necessary to comply with the laws.
Thanks all!
Blessings,
Bill
That is, I don't have a rifle with a short barrel in one of those places, just one that can legally have a short barrel put on it if I'm in a place that doesn't prohibit it...I'm wondering if this would require a new tax stamp to "re-SBR" it. I'd think not, but the hypothetical struck me as interesting. I'm just wondering if it would have to come off the registry as well as be made "factory-length", or if the latter is all that's necessary to comply with the laws.
Thanks all!
Blessings,
Bill
The nice thing about an SBR is that it is a configuration, not necessarily just a registration. When you Form 1 an SBR, the lower is basically ALLOWED to be assembled into an SBR, but it IS NOT actually an SBR until you assemble it into a complete rifle with a <16" upper on it. You can remove the upper and put a 16"> upper on it, and it is temporarily restored to Title I configuration and therefore permitted in a state that doesn't allow SBR's and can be transported across state lines without ATF approval. (If you dispose of the short upper or leave it at home)
In the OP's situation, if I was moving to a non-SBR state, I would sell off the upper receiver and take the lower with me as just a complete lower or if I had a longer barrel, as a 16"+ barreled complete rifle. I would NOT notify the ATF, because that would cause the registry to be amended and I would "lose" my tax stamp. That way, if I ever moved back to an SBR state, I could just acquire a new short upper and be good to go with my SBR again.
BoR,
You could do as you proposed, and you would NOT have to notify ATF that you moved, because you aren't moving an SBR. If you ever moved back to an SBR-friendly state, you could just notify ATF of the move from your original state to the new SBR state, and once approval was received, put a short barrel back on the rifle, no new tax stamp required.
Finally, for technical clarification, no NFA firearm is EVER removed from the registry. If you notified ATF that the firearm was reverted back to Title I status, they would simply AMEND the registry entry to note this. The serial # would still show up in the registry, and a new tax stamp would be required to convert it back to Title II once the registry was amended.
This does not sound right at all. Once you register SBR, it is an SBR even if you put on a 16" barrel. It IS a registration, and not just a configuration. You must still notify the ATF, and you should definitely send a letter politely asking to remove it from the registry. When in doubt, contact a lawyer, because none of us on here can give you the exact answer. Even the BATFE reverses their own decisions....
To condense my post: Simply adding a 16" barrel to an SBR firearm, does not make it a Title 1 weapon again.
From the NFA handbook:
Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of
components.
Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various
definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the
NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon.
For example, a shotgun with a barrel length of 15 inches is an NFA weapon. If the 15- inch barrel is
removed and disposed of, the remaining firearm is not subject to the NFA because it has no barrel.
Likewise, if the 15 inch barrel is modified by permanently attaching an extension such that the barrel
length is at least 18 inches and the overall length of the weapon is at least 26 inches, the modified
firearm is not subject to the NFA. NOTE: an acceptable method for permanently installing a barrel
extension is by gas or electric steel seam welding or the use of high temperature silver solder having a
flow point of 1100 degrees Fahrenheit.
Whereas, a machine gun is a machine gun even if you take the full auto parts out of it, and must be destroyed to be removed from NFA:
2.5.1 Removal of machineguns and silencers from the scope of the NFA. Machineguns are defined
to include the receiver of a machinegun and the definition of silencer includes each component of a
27
18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16)
28
26 U.S.C. 5845(a) 22
silencer. Therefore, to remove these weapons from the provisions of the NFA, the receiver of a
machinegun or all the components of a silencer must be destroyed.
The difference is, the law states that an SBR and SBS are firearms in a certain configuration concerning barrel length and OAL. If they are not in that configuration, they are NOT SBR's and SBS's according to the law. It doesn't matter if the receiver serial # is registered or not, and the ATF letter proves it.
Section 2.5 Removal of firearms from the scope of the NFA by modification/elimination of
components.
Firearms, except machineguns and silencers, that are subject to the NFA fall within the various
definitions due to specific features. If the particular feature that causes a firearm to be regulated by the
NFA is eliminated or modified, the resulting weapon is no longer an NFA weapon.
For example, a shotgun with a barrel length of 15 inches is an NFA weapon. If the 15- inch barrel is
removed and disposed of, the remaining firearm is not subject to the NFA because it has no barrel.
Likewise, if the 15 inch barrel is modified by permanently attaching an extension such that the barrel
length is at least 18 inches and the overall length of the weapon is at least 26 inches, the modified
firearm is not subject to the NFA. NOTE: an acceptable method for permanently installing a barrel
extension is by gas or electric steel seam welding or the use of high temperature silver solder having a
flow point of 1100 degrees Fahrenheit.
Whereas, a machine gun is a machine gun even if you take the full auto parts out of it, and must be destroyed to be removed from NFA:
2.5.1 Removal of machineguns and silencers from the scope of the NFA. Machineguns are defined
to include the receiver of a machinegun and the definition of silencer includes each component of a
27
18 U.S.C. 921(a)(16)
28
26 U.S.C. 5845(a) 22
silencer. Therefore, to remove these weapons from the provisions of the NFA, the receiver of a
machinegun or all the components of a silencer must be destroyed.
The difference is, the law states that an SBR and SBS are firearms in a certain configuration concerning barrel length and OAL. If they are not in that configuration, they are NOT SBR's and SBS's according to the law. It doesn't matter if the receiver serial # is registered or not, and the ATF letter proves it.
Looks like I might just pick up a Barrel Extension for my Draco JIC I ever move to a communist state. The way I read what ryknoll3 just posted, a decent size drop of Silver solder would be good enough to attach an extension and then I could grind it down and take it off if I ever move back. (for $12, it might be a good investment)
Another moving question, this time in state. I know you have to notify of new addresses after the move, but what about if you move during the wait on a Form 1? Will it forward to your new address like another mail? (apparently Federal Tax checks don't) Does it put any damper on the paper work itself not being valid at the time of approval or does it really just matter that it was accurate when it was sent in?
