Mossberg SBS/AOW/NON NFA question

[Vic_Mackey]

I'm a little confused here, guys. I bought a Mossberg 500 brand new a few years back. On the box it said something about being equipped with a pistol grip. There was no stock in the box, and it has a fixed 5+1 tube. This less me to believe I purchased the "cruiser" model, not the "persuader".

That said, with it never having a stock on it, does that mean I could put a 14 inch barrel on it with one of those long, cut down type grips that make it over 26 inches and be legal?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I really don't want to get hung it to dry on a technicality.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

You are running into issues of conflict between Federal law and state law.

In Ind. technically you would be OK if you had a pistol grip shotgun with any length barrel because it falls under the classification of a handgun.

HOWEVER: Federal law says a 'shotgun' is anything that fires a fixed shotgun shell, and therefore it is still a shotgun under federal law so nothing under 18" barrel without a tax stamp.

In Ind. SBS (Short Barreled Shotguns) or Sawed off shotguns are illegal even with a stamp. The way around this is the AOW designation which is a 'shotgun' with a short barrel and only a pistol grip- therefore blending the distiction between handgun/shotgun into the catch all weapons catagory in the NFA.

This can only be accomplished with a bare receiver or one that has NEVER had a shoulder stock on it, tax stamp fees for AOW are $200 maker fee or $5 transfer fee.

Look up Serbu Super Shorty for more info as well.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I'm a little confused here, guys. I bought a Mossberg 500 brand new a few years back. On the box it said stupefying about being equipped with a pistol grip. There was no stock in the box, and it has a fixed 5+1 tube. This less me to believe I purchased the "cruiser" model, not the "persuader".

That said, with it never having a stock on it, does that mean I could put a 14 inch barrel on it with one of those long, cut down type grips that make it over 26 inches and be legal?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, I really don't want to get hung it to dry on a technicality.

I just looked at the writing on this picture, unless I have missed a big loophole somewhere in the NFA laws I don't believe any shotgun with a barrel of less than 18" even IF the overall length is greater than 26" could be exempt from NFA tax stamp and registry.

 

[Vic_Mackey]

That's where I'm confused as well. I've seen on several sites selling bird head gross that you can circumvent all kinds of laws with the overall length from the grip.

Another question that has plagued me is how can anyone be certain that a stock has never been on the shotgun?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

That's where I'm confused as well. I've seen on several sites selling bird head gross that you can circumvent all kinds of laws with the overall length from the grip.

Another question that has plagued me is how can anyone be certain that a stock has never been on the shotgun?

Overall length is only one component. You can have an 18" barrel but if your shotgun is 'overall' less than 26" in length it is still a SBS. They are mutually exclusive, meaning that either and both apply.

They only way to tell is that that model was never sold as one with a stock. In other words, Remington does not sell bare 870 receivers anymore and does not offer a pistol grip only model. You would have to show that your model number was one that was sold with a pistol grip only.

Its all complete and needs repealed, the ATF disbanded and the policy makers there convicted of federal crime for violating our rights guaranteed by the Constitution.

 

[Vic_Mackey]

I completely agree with that. If there was ever a collapse I think we would see some very interesting guns out there with nobody to "enforce" what they consider lawful guns lol

Here's the website I've found a bunch of info on, the guy even he's links to meters he wrote to the ATF about this particular shotgun build.

http://shockwavetechnologies.com/site/?page_id=88

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I completely agree with that. If there was ever a collapse I think we would see some very interesting guns out there with nobody to "enforce" what they consider lawful guns lol

Here's the website I've found a bunch of info on, the guy even he's links to meters he wrote to the ATF about this particular shotgun build.

shockwavetechnologies.com » The 14″ Mossberg 500 That ISN’T NFA!

After reading that it would seem to hinge on the rule that an AOW MUST be shorter than 26" to qualify but I'm not sure that they do, I'm trying to look it up now.

 

[Vic_Mackey]

That's the only thing I keep seeing brought up in the letters and on different sites.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

That's the only thing I keep seeing brought up in the letters and on different sites.

It seems as thought it is a VERY thin line. I do not see "Concealable on the body" defined in federal law with my basic searches. I do not have access to specialized databases or knowledge of their use like a lawyer would but I can generally find what I am looking for.

IMO you could easily get a letter from the Tech Branch of the ATF saying you are GTG and still be prosecuted for a federal crime of possession of NFA item without a tax stamp/registered.

As far as Indiana law would go, you should be fine since the only thing we do not allow is SBS and the reading of it is spot on with this. As long as it's overall length is over 26" you would be fine as it would merely be considered a handgun.

 

[Vic_Mackey]

Dammit, where's a lawyer when you need one. Cough cough Guy cough! Actually I don't know if Guy handles NFA or not. I am thinking about calling someone or some agency, I just don't know who exactly. Like you said, ATF can say one thing, and do another.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Dammit, where's a lawyer when you need one. Cough cough Guy cough! Actually I don't know if Guy handles NFA or not. I am thinking about calling someone or some agency, I just don't know who exactly. Like you said, ATF can say one thing, and do another.

That is the problem with an unconstitutional government enforcement division with little public oversight.

They CREATED the rule about vertical front grips on pistols out of thin air and thinks it will stick.

 

[Vic_Mackey]

Are there any NFA dealers on here that would know?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Are there any NFA dealers on here that would know?

Not to dog any dealers here but being in a field does not make you an expert on every part of it. I know I have heard some down right wrong and ILLEGAL advice from Class III/SOTs and cops.

Law is a tricky thing.

 

[VUPDblue]

I followed the thread on barfcom when this issue came up. evidently batfe says this configuration is OK and sales have been made of this very type of shotgun. by the letter of the law I can sort of see how this works. I wouldn't call it a loophole, more of a default definition since that configuration doesn't explicitly fit the AOW or SBS category.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

I followed the thread on barfcom when this issue came up. evidently batfe says this configuration is OK and sales have been made of this very type of shotgun. by the letter of the law I can sort of see how this works. I wouldn't call it a loophole, more of a default definition since that configuration doesn't explicitly fit the AOW or SBS category.

I agree with you, but IMO it still hinges on "concealable on the body" not being defined or actually being defined as less than 26".

To my knowledge it is neither as of now.

 

[Vic_Mackey]

So, verdict is I should be okay?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

So, verdict is I should be okay?

If I were you I would keep a copy of the ruling, all applicable laws and be very aware of how to deal with LEOs not understanding the laws.

But otherwise it looks like you should be GTG.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Since you have a pistol grip from factory shotgun, could it be Form 1'd to an AOW and cut as short as you like?

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Since you have a pistol grip from factory shotgun, could it be Form 1'd to an AOW and cut as short as you like?

Yes but he was wanting to sidestep the tax stamp and accompanying registration.

 

[ctbreitwieser]

Yes but he was wanting to sidestep the tax stamp and accompanying registration.

Ok, I wasnt sure. Everytime I read about that shotgun in the pic in the OP I always get confused with all the legal terms.