http://ingunowners.com/forums When the SHTF en Fri, 20 Nov 2009 22:42:07 GMT vBulletin 60 http://ingunowners.com/forums/images/styles/Greenstar/misc/rss.jpg http://ingunowners.com/forums http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/62382-pistol_or.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 17:09:38 GMT I was reading on the SOG site and see they really advocate a 22 semi auto with optics. However, I can't get around the fact that a shot shell is sure nice to have.

One of the most prevalent animals around are birds. A shot a shell goes a long ways then. The problem is, what pistol will shoot lets say a 22 and a shot shell. Not a 22 shot, but a real shot shell – 410. I have to discount the Taurse 45/410 for not being accurate at distance and only having a .45. Guess you could get a 45/22 insert (don’t know who makes one) but the accuracy issue would still be there.

I like the idea of a semi 22 just can’t figure how to get my shot shell also.

I do have a savage 22m / 20g, but it is a rifle. And I figure it is a good choice if and when you can carry a rifle.


Additionally, I put a post in the pistol section about compairing the SW to the Rugar semi.
Comments
:ar15: ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness jjc http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/62382-pistol_or.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/62338-shtf_off_road_vehicle.html Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:38:05 GMT I have just purchased a 1994 Camo Geo Tracker 4x4. It has 200000 miles on it but still runs like a March hare. This will be my hunting/range, SHTF kinda off road around town toy play truck. I am not wanting to get a lot of money into this but there are a few things that seem mandatory, for instance the front bumper is all but gone rusted away, so I thought of replacing it with some simple tube stock and doing this on the back as well. I was hoping maybe there was someone on here that has a welder they have just been dieing to use that might want to play some weekend. Also if anyone has any first hand EXP. with this sort of thing I would love some ideas. All I really plan to do is bumpers mud tires and maybe some extra lighting. But like I said this is a $700 Tracker, I don't want to sink a ton of dollars into it. :D ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness Chefcook http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/62338-shtf_off_road_vehicle.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/62275-french_bank_prepares_for_global_economic_collapse.html Thu, 19 Nov 2009 23:55:28 GMT Société Générale tells clients how to prepare for potential 'global collapse'

Société Générale has advised clients to be ready for a possible "global economic collapse" over the next two years, mapping a strategy of defensive investments to avoid wealth destruction.



By Ambrose Evans-Pritchard
Published: 6:12PM GMT 18 Nov 2009


Explosion of debt: Japan's public debt could reach as much as 270pc of GDP in the next two years.




In a report entitled "Worst-case debt scenario", the bank's asset team said state rescue packages over the last year have merely transferred private liabilities onto sagging sovereign shoulders, creating a fresh set of problems.
Overall debt is still far too high in almost all rich economies as a share of GDP (350pc in the US), whether public or private. It must be reduced by the hard slog of "deleveraging", for years.



"As yet, nobody can say with any certainty whether we have in fact escaped the prospect of a global economic collapse," said the 68-page report, headed by asset chief Daniel Fermon. It is an exploration of the dangers, not a forecast.
Under the French bank's "Bear Case" scenario (the gloomiest of three possible outcomes), the dollar would slide further and global equities would retest the March lows. Property prices would tumble again. Oil would fall back to $50 in 2010.
Governments have already shot their fiscal bolts. Even without fresh spending, public debt would explode within two years to 105pc of GDP in the UK, 125pc in the US and the eurozone, and 270pc in Japan. Worldwide state debt would reach $45 trillion, up two-and-a-half times in a decade.
(UK figures look low because debt started from a low base. Mr Ferman said the UK would converge with Europe at 130pc of GDP by 2015 under the bear case).
The underlying debt burden is greater than it was after the Second World War, when nominal levels looked similar. Ageing populations will make it harder to erode debt through growth. "High public debt looks entirely unsustainable in the long run. We have almost reached a point of no return for government debt," it said.
Inflating debt away might be seen by some governments as a lesser of evils.
If so, gold would go "up, and up, and up" as the only safe haven from fiat paper money. Private debt is also crippling. Even if the US savings rate stabilises at 7pc, and all of it is used to pay down debt, it will still take nine years for households to reduce debt/income ratios to the safe levels of the 1980s.
The bank said the current crisis displays "compelling similarities" with Japan during its Lost Decade (or two), with a big difference: Japan was able to stay afloat by exporting into a robust global economy and by letting the yen fall. It is not possible for half the world to pursue this strategy at the same time.
SocGen advises bears to sell the dollar and to "short" cyclical equities such as technology, auto, and travel to avoid being caught in the "inherent deflationary spiral". Emerging markets would not be spared. Paradoxically, they are more leveraged to the US growth than Wall Street itself. Farm commodities would hold up well, led by sugar.
Mr Fermon said junk bonds would lose 31pc of their value in 2010 alone. However, sovereign bonds would "generate turbo-charged returns" mimicking the secular slide in yields seen in Japan as the slump ground on. At one point Japan's 10-year yield dropped to 0.40pc. The Fed would hold down yields by purchasing more bonds. The European Central Bank would do less, for political reasons.
SocGen's case for buying sovereign bonds is controversial. A number of funds doubt whether the Japan scenario will be repeated, not least because Tokyo itself may be on the cusp of a debt compound crisis.
Mr Fermon said his report had electrified clients on both sides of the Atlantic. "Everybody wants to know what the impact will be. A lot of hedge funds and bankers are worried," he said. ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness CarmelHP http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/62275-french_bank_prepares_for_global_economic_collapse.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/62082-low_profile_survival.html Wed, 18 Nov 2009 18:54:58 GMT In a long term SHTF senario, keeping a low profile is more important than convenience I think. Once the starving gangs are roving the countryside, having the only house with the lights on, will be a liability. Also, the wife and daughter both hate meat-in-a-can and beans, but I know that when food gets scarce and all thats left in the stash is beans and spam and sardines, they will be loving them!:yesway: In a long term SHTF senario, keeping a low profile is more important than convenience I think.

Once the starving gangs are roving the countryside, having the only house with the lights on, will be a liability.

Also, the wife and daughter both hate meat-in-a-can and beans, but I know that when food gets scarce and all thats left in the stash is beans and spam and sardines, they will be loving them!:yesway: ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness Johnny C http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/62082-low_profile_survival.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61873-the_road_-_post_movie_get_together_discussion.html Tue, 17 Nov 2009 05:38:24 GMT To All, This looks like a pretty intense SHTF scenario. It appears that it is now scheduled (for real!) to open on Nov 25th. Anyone interested in a post movie get together and discussion of the movie? Regards, Doug PS - I put this here due to the nature of the movies topic. If this belongs in another area, oops, sorry. To All,

This looks like a pretty intense SHTF scenario.

It appears that it is now scheduled (for real!) to open on Nov 25th.

Anyone interested in a post movie get together and discussion of the movie?

Regards,

Doug

PS - I put this here due to the nature of the movies topic. If this belongs in another area, oops, sorry.
]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness Libertarian01 http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61873-the_road_-_post_movie_get_together_discussion.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61800-msg_or_co-op_commune.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 20:31:14 GMT With the MSG concept isn't it ironic that many of us would sooner burn and salt our fields than turn them over for communism or socialism.

However during a SHTF event the essence of a successful MSG will involve everyone pulling together and sharing labor, supplies, security and land for survival which is considered a Co-OP or commune.

Why will we find this so easy then but now we cannot all pull together in our workforce and communities to stop the insanity that we face daily?

Is it because we get to choose who we work with for the common good?

I just was wondering so I thought I would get a different oppinion again.:patriot: ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness oldfb http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61800-msg_or_co-op_commune.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61796-to_keep_a_rifle.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 19:49:49 GMT I bought a .308 Savage 111 last year. Awesome walnut stock. I thought it might come in handy one day for SHTF long range protection as well as hunting in SHTF scenario. I am wondering if I really need this. I am wanting a new deer rifle that I would actually use. I have a AR as well. Thoughts? I bought a .308 Savage 111 last year. Awesome walnut stock. I thought it might come in handy one day for SHTF long range protection as well as hunting in SHTF scenario.

I am wondering if I really need this. I am wanting a new deer rifle that I would actually use. I have a AR as well.

Thoughts? ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness clfergus http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61796-to_keep_a_rifle.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61782-canned_goods_and_bottled_water.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 17:45:45 GMT Canned Goods:
Mainly what I want to accomplish is easy preparation but at the same time work the charity angle.

Anyone know how quickly donated food gets distributed with charity organizations? My church does the "food pantry" thing, but it's just a stock-pile that's handed out "as needed," so the items can take months to distribute.

If it's relatively swift, my plan would be to buy canned goods en masse and keep them until maybe six months is left on the expiration, donate them, and then buy more.

As far as water preparation goes, I've seen quite a number of ideas, ranging from purifiers (a long-term necessity) to the short term, "hey, I've got a plastic container shaped like my bath-tub -- let's fill it before the water pressure is gone."

The former is a great idea, but the latter isn't going to last all that long. What I've started doing myself is buying bottled watter in bulk. Yes, it's more expensive than tap water, but the way it's sealed, it should last indefinitely, provided the seals aren't broken, odor notwithstanding. (Then again, I buy pepsi products in bulk too, so I should be good on the liquid side of things for quite a while:D)

Anyone else doing anything similar? The can project I haven't started yet, but I've got plenty of room to store. The water has just been an on-going thing, since the wife only likes one kind, and we have to go to Sam's to get it. ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness bigg cheese http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61782-canned_goods_and_bottled_water.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61689-7_days_after_the_shtf.html Mon, 16 Nov 2009 00:13:58 GMT ....the .gov shows up and says you have to take in these 8 people who were stuck in the area when the SHTF....... No other help for the extra mouths will be provided...... What say you? ....the .gov shows up and says you have to take in these 8 people who were stuck in the area when the SHTF.......

No other help for the extra mouths will be provided......

What say you? ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness longbow http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61689-7_days_after_the_shtf.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61614-storing_plastic_gas_cans_outside.html Sun, 15 Nov 2009 16:25:54 GMT Does anyone think that I can successfully and safely store fuel outside on my balcony? I live in an apartment and do not have a garage. Moisture is my primary concern. I would potentially store a couple 5gal plastic cans inside of another plastic tub or box.

Any opinions? Obviously if SHTF, I don't want to damage my vehicle with water in my gas tank. ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness nahfuten http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61614-storing_plastic_gas_cans_outside.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61596-shtf_chicken_not_sure_i_would_eat_it_tho.html Sun, 15 Nov 2009 10:20:09 GMT I was watching comedy central a night or two ago. They had this guy who was challenged to eat 6 whole canned chicken. I say WTF a whole canned chicken? :rolleyes: Yes! I've never seen this before so I wanted to share. The SHTF possililites are unlimited I think but god it looks nasty. It is already fully pre cooked from my understanding. Link incomming
A Whole Chicken In A Can: YUMMO! Food Network Humor
So would anyone tried this yet or have a review on taste? I wonder if you could eat it right out of the can being pre cooked. ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness Comp http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61596-shtf_chicken_not_sure_i_would_eat_it_tho.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61591-interesting_real_estate_listing.html Sun, 15 Nov 2009 07:01:46 GMT I came across the following link. It is a piece of property in northwestern indiana, about $300k, 5.5 acres, frontage on tippecanoe river, and about 75 miles from chicago. 8200 square feet... oh yeah it is also (and I quote) :ar15::shoot::biggun::drill:
NUCLEAR WAR PROOF

• Hardened Underground Communications Vault
• on 5.5 acres (more or less)
• frontage on the Tippecanoe River
• a 1960's nuclear war-proof communications center
• 8,200 sq.ft. usable floor-space
• 24" thick walls and ceilings
• metal shielding enveloping the entire structure
• 2' - 4' of earth covering all
• equipped with heavy blast doors and blast valve closure mechanisms
• equipped with air vents with filter systems
• escape hatch emergency exit
• very large diesel generator in place
• lighting
• pumps, heating & cooling
• dehumidification
• electric hoist - mostly operational and ready to use
• original blue prints and maintenance books go with
• many options for home-site
• secure storage
• possible use: commercial/industrial retrofit
• located 75 miles from Chicago.


Communication Vault, Pulaski, IN

I smell a group buy!:ingo: ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness a.bentonab http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61591-interesting_real_estate_listing.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61590-just_watched_the_movie_2012_a.html Sun, 15 Nov 2009 06:48:02 GMT If ya'll want to see a TRULY SHTF moment, watch this movie!

Great special effects and acting! The movie does some wonderful jobs w/ good actors in interesting roles.

If this were ever even remotely true then no amount of planning would help assuage one ounce of devastation.

This is one of those movies that shows us how the world ends, and not what comes after.

Excellent timing though. soon the movie "The Road" comes out to show us what happened later on...:D

For those thinking about taking the younguns' there is some cussing (not a lot) and it could be very scary when lots and lots and LOTS of people die in some really cool aerial scenes of cities being decimated.

Let me know what you think of it if you see the movie.

Regards,

Doug
]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness Libertarian01 http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61590-just_watched_the_movie_2012_a.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61586-what_triggers_your_shtf_mode.html Sun, 15 Nov 2009 05:26:34 GMT This is something I have questioned for as long as I have had interest in a SHTF scenario. I don't know if this is a personal question or not, so answer it as you see fit. I know there are thousands of huge reasons...nukes, earthquakes, major terrorists assaults, etc.......

What will trigger you to say, I'm not going to work. I'm mobilizing my family, my plan, my supplies, and put you into survival mode?

I don't plan for my SHTF mindset to be something that progressivly builds up. I have based mine mostly on communication. I want to act first, not wait for the news channels to report it. I feel like cell phones will be the first level of comms to be lost. Even if TV and the Web is still operating I plan to start mobilizing as soon as verbal communication is lost, or becomes threatened. I see these commercials that ask if your family has a plan and I know ours isn't perfect, but this is our "trigger"

I hope to learn from your responses. Thanks. ]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness Big Hank http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61586-what_triggers_your_shtf_mode.html http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61575-agricultural_disaster_area.html Sun, 15 Nov 2009 04:01:10 GMT Anyone see this?

-----


USDA Declares Half Of Midwest As Agricultural Disaster Area

http://www.marketskeptics.com/2009/1...idwest-as.html

November 13, 2009

by Eric deCarbonnel


The graphic below shows counties designated as disaster areas by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (data from the USDA. See http://www.fema.gov/dhsusda/searchState.do). It speaks for itself.


http://www.rowaytonrentals.com/Rando...sasterv2v2.PNG


Recent USDA Disaster Declarations

Southwest Farm Press reports that counties in Kansas designated as disaster areas.

(emphasis mine) [my comment]

Counties in Kansas designated as disaster areas
Nov 12, 2009 9:52 AM

The U.S. Department of Agriculture has designated Cheyenne, Rice and Sherman counties in Kansas as primary natural disaster areas because of losses caused by high winds and hail that occurred from July 17, through September 3, 2009.

"President Obama and I understand these conditions caused severe damage to the area and serious harm to farms in Kansas and we want to help," said Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack. "This action will provide help to hundreds of farmers who suffered significant production losses to corn, dry beans, sorghum, soybeans, sunflowers and wheat, as well as grasses and forage."

The Farm Service Agency reports that USDA Designates 10 Counties in South Dakota as Primary Natural Disaster Areas.

USDA Designates 10 Counties in South Dakota as Primary Natural Disaster Areas
Decision Allows Farmers and Ranchers to Apply for USDA Assistance

WASHINGTON, Oct. 16, 2009 - The U.S. Department of Agriculture designated 10 counties in South Dakota as primary natural disaster areas because of losses caused by the combined effects of severe storms with hail, high winds, flooding and grasshopper infestations, which occurred during the period of Jan.1,2009, and continuing. The ten counties designated are Aurora, Brown, Custer, Fall River, Gregory, Hutchinson, Jackson, Marshall, Mellette and Yankton.

“President Obama and I understand these conditions caused severe damage to the area and serious harm to the farms in South Dakota and we want to help,” said Secretary Tom Vilsack. “This action will provide help to hundreds of farmers who suffered significant production losses to forage and pasture, corn, oats, sorghum, soybeans, sunflowers and wheat.”

Farm And Ranch Guide reports that six northern Minnesota counties designed ag disaster area.

Six northern Minnesota counties designed ag disaster area
By USDA
Monday, October 12, 2009 9:49 AM CDT

On Oct. 8, the USDA named six counties in northern Minnesota as primary natural disaster areas. Those counties, Kittson, Koohiching, Lake of the Woods, Marshall, Pennington and Roseau, were named because of losses caused by the combined effects of excessive snow, rain, flooding, flash flooding and unseasonably cool temperatures, as well as frost and freezes that occurred from April 1, 2009 through June 30, 2009.

In making the announcement, USDA Secretary Tom Vilsack said, “President Obama and I understand there conditions caused by severe damage to the area and serious harm to the farms in Minnesota and we want to help. This action will provide help to hundreds of farmers who suffered significant production losses to alfalfa, barley, canola, corn, oats, rye, soybeans, sunflowers, wheat and forage crops.”




]]> Survival and Disaster Preparedness RachelMarie http://ingunowners.com/forums/survival_and_disaster_preparedness/61575-agricultural_disaster_area.html