Why IL resident can NOT bring handgun to IN range

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • jedi

    Da PinkFather
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    51   0   0
    Oct 27, 2008
    37,669
    113
    NWI, North of US-30
    Question for you Indiana/Illinois law gurus.
    At Winamac there is a sign where you check in that advises IL residents that it is against the law (IN) for them to use the range with a handgun they own and brought from IL with them. They can use the range with long guns only. They can use a handgun at he range if that handgun does not belong to them but an IN resident with an LTCH.

    What I am looking for is the ICs that make this so. My understanding is the following.

    In Indiana you need an IN LTCH to get from your house to the range.
    Since IL residents can not apply for an IN LTCH then per IN law they need to have a "permit/license" to carry from a state we do recongize.

    IL does not have a "permit/license" to carry (FOID is NOT that) so that means than an IL resident has no way to bring a handgun to IN for use at a range.

    Now what about if the IL resident gets a non-resident UT "permit/license" would that then satify the IC for IN?

    ---
    NWI INGO MEMBERS
    Get the latest news by joining the NWI INGO group here:
    INGunOwners - Northwest Indiana

    UPCOMING EVENTS
    The final 2010 MEET & SHOOT will be in NOV. Go vote for which date!
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...14439-nwi_ingo_meet_and_shoot_-_nov_date.html

    Halloween Cigar OC Night is 28 OCT 2010
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...0_28_-_pit_stop_cigar_lounge_pine_island.html

    Appleseed for NWI
    2 Day Courses
    Sand Burr Gun Ranch: Calendar
    11-12 DEC 2010 @ Sand Burr, Rochester, IN
    19-20 MAR 2011 @ Sand Burr, Rochester, IN
    02-03 APR 2011 @ Sand Burr, Rochester, IN

    Keep this post for uncoming info & updates
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/appleseed/107083-new_ranges_coming_to_eventbright.html

    NEED YOUR HELP
    List of ranges in NWI; Is your range here?:
    https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break_room/106004-nwi_ingo_general_post-3.html#post1252132
     

    kludge

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Mar 13, 2008
    5,360
    48
    Get a Florida or Utah license (or any state that offers out-of-state licenses). IANAL, YMMV.

    Indiana Hunting guide incorrectly (IMHO) states that hunters from states that do not issue handgun licenses can not hunt with a handgun in Indiana. The LAW says no such thing.

    If you are an IL resident and work in IN, you can get an IN LTCH.

    IC 35-47-2-21
    Recognition of retail dealers' licenses and licenses to carry handguns issued by other states
    Sec. 21. (a) Retail dealers' licenses issued by other states or foreign countries will not be recognized in Indiana except for sales at wholesale.
    (b) Licenses to carry handguns, issued by other states or foreign countries, will be recognized according to the terms thereof but only while the holders are not residents of Indiana.
    I would direct the issue to whoever runs the range, and clearly show the IC above that IL residents w/OOS licenses ARE NOT PROHIBITED from doing just what you suggest (getting a UT or FL license). If you work on it from that angle, you might get the sign changed.

    Not worth an arrest or a lawyer bill to me anyway - not that I think you would formally be charged with CWOL. The LAW clearly makes no such prohibition.

    I know the sign at my local Gander Mountain changed to say "open or concealed" (it previously only said "concealed").

    BTW an IL FOID, IMO is nearly exactly the same as an IN "qualified" LTCH (to and from range), so IMHO, an IL FOID = IN QLTCH, and as such should not be interpreted in the way that it is.

    But I hate almost all gun laws anyway.

    ... but there is one other interesting interpretation in the sign... that a person without a LTCH can shoot a gun which does not belong to them, and the IC makes no such exception.

    IC 35-47-2-1
    Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
    Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
    (b) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body in the person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place of business.

    IC 35-47-2-2
    Excepted persons
    Sec. 2. Section 1 of this chapter does not apply to:
    (1) marshals;
    (2) sheriffs;
    (3) the commissioner of the department of correction or persons authorized by him in writing to carry firearms;
    (4) judicial officers;
    (5) law enforcement officers;
    (6) members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves while they are on duty;
    (7) regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this state who are at or are going to or from their place of assembly or target practice;
    (8) employees of the United States duly authorized to carry handguns;
    (9) employees of express companies when engaged in company business;
    (10) any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent or representative of any such person having in his possession, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of that business; or
    (11) any person while carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or in moving from one dwelling or business to another.
     
    Last edited:

    IndyGunSafety

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    2   0   0
    Mar 11, 2009
    2,888
    38
    Fishers, IN
    As you stated Indiana recognizes all other states licenses/permits, but IL has none. If a person has a license non-resident or other, it is recongnized here in Indiana.

    However, there are licenses that Indiana DOES NOT RECOGNIZE! This is a bit off the topic but a neat piece of legal trivia anyway: A non-resident license alone may not be used by a resident of the state of Indiana for the basis of carry here. If you are an Indiana resident you must have an LTCH to carry in Indiana.
     

    littletommy

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 29, 2009
    13,015
    113
    A holler in Kentucky
    Maybe it's a reciprocal thing, sorta like IN residents not being able to carry in OH or IL. Or maybe it's to keep Chicago gang-bangers from using the range as a training facility.
     

    jedi

    Da PinkFather
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    51   0   0
    Oct 27, 2008
    37,669
    113
    NWI, North of US-30
    ... but there is one other interesting interpretation in the sign... that a person without a LTCH can shoot a gun which does not belong to them, and the IC makes no such exception.

    :dunno: Hu?
    Are you saying is Person A (has an IN LTCH) and Person B (no IN LTCH) are at range. Person B can not use Person's A handgun while at the range?



    you must have a handgun permit to carry, hunt, or use at a dnr range a handgun..
    if your state does not issue a carry permit you have to get an indiana non res permit..


    ICs please... ICs....

    The reason for me asking for ICs in the OP is I'm working on an FAQ and this "scenario" occurs often and I don't just want to say per IN and IL laws. I want to provide the reader with the ref. point should they wish to look it up.
     

    bdj357

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 100%
    17   0   0
    Jun 13, 2008
    738
    43
    DaRegion NWI Crown Point
    you must have a handgun permit to carry, hunt, or use at a dnr range a handgun..
    if your state does not issue a carry permit you have to get an indiana non res permit..

    Correct...the reason is basically because one needs a permit to carry a handgun publically. Without one, they can not carry a gun on a state owned public range.
     
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Jul 3, 2008
    3,619
    63
    central indiana
    The gun must be under the control of someone with a LTCH or permit from another government.. It does not mean a non permit holder, alone, can take someone's gun and go shoot with it... the holder of a LTCH must be there also..
    as long as the LTCH holder claims ownership of the handgun when asked , then you will be ok using that range.. but if person A, non LTCH, and person B, LTCH holder, go to range and CO stops them and asks "Who's gun is this?" if person A say "mine" then he is in trouble for having a handgun with out a permit..

    Since Indiana has no registration there is no way for a cop to prove who owns the gun right at that moment..
     

    jdgatliff

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Sep 7, 2010
    39
    6
    Since your crossing state lines Firearms Owners’ Protection Act should apply if you are taking it to a place where you can legally posses it??? If I'm understand it right.

    Here's where I got that from.
    NRA-ILA ::
     

    Bubbajms

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    20   0   0
    Sep 3, 2008
    2,532
    38
    Delphi, IN
    jdgatliff, from the way I'd understand it (IANAL)..

    Sure, you could come here, but Indiana says to legally carry a handgun (protection or hunting/target) you have to have a permit. Since IL doesn't issue a permit, as such, you can't carry it, even to a range, right?
     

    melensdad

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 94.7%
    18   1   0
    Apr 2, 2008
    23,984
    77
    Far West Suburban Lowellabama
    Since your crossing state lines Firearms Owners’ Protection Act should apply if you are taking it to a place where you can legally posses it??? If I'm understand it right.

    Here's where I got that from.
    NRA-ILA ::

    NOPE you are misinterpreting the law.

    There are overlapping laws that make things very confusing. An IL resident can travel THROUGH the state of Indiana with a handgun but not TO the state of Indiana with a handgun . . . as per the determination of the D.N.R.

    Federal law protects travelers who are traveling through a jurisdiction. However if you are traveling to somewhere there is a potential problem. The D.N.R. has determined that Federal law does not protect someone who is traveling TO a range in Indiana but rather that the person must comply with INDIANA law. Indiana law requires a license/permit to carry a gun, and that includes transporting it to a gun range within the state. Therefore someone traveling from IL to IN to a gun range much be 'carrying' and therefore must comply with IN law.

    Probably the easiest license to get that would allow a non-Hoosier to carry in the state of Indiana is the PA non-resident permit. Unlike the Utah or FLA permits, the PA permit does not require training so its quicker to attain but is far more limited than the other two popular permits.




    . . . Indiana says to legally carry a handgun (protection or hunting/target) you have to have a permit. Since IL doesn't issue a permit, as such, you can't carry it, even to a range, right?

    RIGHT, no carry, not even to the range.

    But its legal for an Illinois resident to bring a gun to Indiana if that resident is staying in a hotel room in Indiana. Its not legal to remove it from the hotel room, except to continue a journey, or to return home.
     

    jbombelli

    ITG Certified
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    May 17, 2008
    13,010
    113
    Brownsburg, IN
    Tell him to get a non-resident license from another state (the aforementioned I hear are good for a lot of states), and he'll be good to go here. As long as he's not an Indiana resident. If he MOVES here, he'll need an Indiana license.
     

    indykid

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Jan 27, 2008
    11,859
    113
    Westfield
    I thought that if an Illinois resident has a FOID card for the weapon he wants to shoot here, it was ok. I now read that I am wrong? And where can I find where it says that a FOID isn't recognized?

    Thanks
     

    mrjarrell

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 18, 2009
    19,986
    63
    Hamilton County
    All the FOID shows is that they are permitted to own a weapon in Illinois. It's not a license to carry, only to own, so it doesn't count as a LTCH or carry permit.
     

    wolfman

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    May 5, 2008
    1,734
    63
    S Side Indy
    you must have a handgun permit to carry, hunt, or use at a dnr range a handgun..
    if your state does not issue a carry permit you have to get an indiana non res permit..

    Incorrect ,,,, even though there are a couple of exceptions, as a general rule, Indiana DOES NOT issue non res LTCH's.

    Correct...the reason is basically because one needs a permit to carry a handgun publically. Without one, they can not carry a gun on a state owned public range.

    Incorrect, public or private, doesn't matter. There are only 3 specific cases where a LTCH isn't required when carrying and/or transporting a handgun in Indiana.
    On property you "own" or are a legal tennant.
    From a place of purchase to your home.
    From your home, to a place of repair and back.
    Through the state of Indiana when neither the origin or destination of the trip, is a point within the state of Indiana.
    At all other times, the person carrying and/or transporting a handgun must also posess a valid LTCH or carry permit issued by another state.
     

    jeremy

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    7   0   0
    Feb 18, 2008
    16,482
    36
    Fiddler's Green
    Incorrect ,,,, even though there are a couple of exceptions, as a general rule, Indiana DOES NOT issue non res LTCH's.

    Actually, YOU are the one who is incorrect.
    The State does issue a NON-Resident LTCH. Try again... :D

    Incorrect, public or private, doesn't matter. There are only 3 specific cases where a LTCH isn't required when carrying and/or transporting a handgun in Indiana.
    On property you "own" or are a legal tennant.
    From a place of purchase to your home.
    From your home, to a place of repair and back.
    Through the state of Indiana when neither the origin or destination of the trip, is a point within the state of Indiana.
    At all other times, the person carrying and/or transporting a handgun must also posess a valid LTCH or carry permit issued by another state.
    Two words for you reading comprehension... ;)
     

    kludge

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    5   0   0
    Mar 13, 2008
    5,360
    48
    :dunno: Hu?
    Are you saying is Person A (has an IN LTCH) and Person B (no IN LTCH) are at range. Person B can not use Person's A handgun while at the range?

    IANAL, and AFAIK no one has ever been arrested or convicted of such, and AFAIK LEOs interpret the it the way the DNR sign in the OP says it...

    But if you read the law word for word there is no pretection (exemption) in the IC for a non-LTCH to have a handgun "on or about" his/her person or in his/her vehicle without a license. Not on a range, Not in a car, not on a train, not in a box with a fox, not in a house with a mouse.

    If a person is at any range or on public or private land or in someones home and has a handgun in their hand technically they have no defense they way the words of the current law are written.

    Like I said, I can't point to anything that says it's interpreted that way, but that is the way it is written.
     

    jedi

    Da PinkFather
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    51   0   0
    Oct 27, 2008
    37,669
    113
    NWI, North of US-30
    OK all thanks for the info. I think I have a better grasp of the answer.
    How does this sound.

    [Note the event in question is the NWI Meet & Shoot held at Winamc (a DNR Range)]

    Q: I live in IL and would like to attend the event. Can I bring my guns as well?
    Everyone is welcome to attend. Winamac is a free public range. Please note that non-Indiana residents must have a license or permit to carry a handgun from either Indiana or another state that Indiana recognizes (see here for more info) in order to bring their handguns to the range. The IL FOID card DOES NOT count to meet this requirement. You CAN bring a long guns (rifles and shotguns) WITHOUT a license/permit.
     
    Top Bottom