Riffled barrel sleeve.

[j706]

Does anyone know of a gunsmith that can do a rifled sleeve/liner job on a 410 bore shotgun?

 

[CountryBoy19]

Permanent sleeve or some sort of caliber/gauge adapter? What are you looking to go down to? The degree of difficulty on a job like this is very dependent on exactly what you're trying to do.

Single shot, break-action?

 

[PGRChaplain]

Are you trying to make a Rifle out of the Shotgun?

 

[Iroquois]

What kind of 410? Most newer ones have thin wall barrels so that might be impractical.
Maybe you can find a .45 long colt / .410 replacement barrel (didn't somebody make a survival
gun like that?)

 

[IMPD31323]

Sorry but if you are trying to make a double rifle your beat bet would be a 28ga or 20ga side by side. We did a 44mag dlb rifle conversion several years ago and you will want the extra room in the tubes to regulate the barrels. Best of luck.

 

[j706]

Long story here with this thing. It is a single shot "trapper" I believe. No stock but a pistol grip. It was a friends deceased fathers gun. It was and is a AOW per BATF. But somewhere along the line someone didn't transfer it. Our PD has it in our possession as per BATF. It either needs to be destroyed or rifled. The last I heard that was the only two options. Like stated above this thing is a .410 The son would really like to retain it if at all possible. Actually it is a nice looking quality piece.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Long story here with this thing. It is a single shot "trapper" I believe. No stock but a pistol grip. It was a friends deceased fathers gun. It was and is a AOW per BATF. But somewhere along the line someone didn't transfer it. Our PD has it in our possession as per BATF. It either needs to be destroyed or rifled. The last I heard that was the only two options. Like stated above this thing is a .410 The son would really like to retain it if at all possible. Actually it is a nice looking quality piece.

I'll jump right in and say "good on ya for trying to find a way to get it returned to the son instead of destroying it"

I have nothing else to contribute beyond that

 

[woodshed]

I don't like the idea at all, probably will end up being very bobo and leave you wishing you hadn't done it in the first place. Think about it alot before you mangle a nice firearm.

Scott

 

[PGRChaplain]

Why don't you add a Buttstock and then it would be a Shotgun, like it was manufactured? Who is the Mfg of the gun and how did the "Local PD" get it? Will the PD release it to be repaired into a Gun again. Here in Ft Wayne most items like that end up in the Melt Furnace at Valbruna Stainless Steel.

 

[686 Shooter]

Long story here with this thing. It is a single shot "trapper" I believe. No stock but a pistol grip. It was a friends deceased fathers gun. It was and is a AOW per BATF. But somewhere along the line someone didn't transfer it. Our PD has it in our possession as per BATF. It either needs to be destroyed or rifled. The last I heard that was the only two options. Like stated above this thing is a .410 The son would really like to retain it if at all possible. Actually it is a nice looking quality piece.

Unless I'm missing something here, because it once had a shoulder stock, it can't be made into an AOW (once a shotgun, always a shotgun).

 

[remauto1187]

"trapper" ? As in a H&R Trapper Single shot break open shotgun? AKA $80 throw away gun. If so...it aint worth F'n with.

 

[red_zr24x4]

I'll jump right in and say "good on ya for trying to find a way to get it returned to the son instead of destroying it"

I have nothing else to contribute beyond that

What he said^^^

I don't like the idea at all, probably will end up being very bobo and leave you wishing you hadn't done it in the first place. Think about it alot before you mangle a nice firearm.

Scott

Did you read it? he has two options re chamber or destroy. He's trying to return a illegal firearm to the owners son.

"trapper" ? As in a H&R Trapper Single shot break open shotgun? AKA $80 throw away gun. If so...it aint worth F'n with.

Again, did you read it? I have a gun that was my dads, I would pay anything to be able to keep it. it doesn't matter if it was an $80 or $800 gun.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Unless I'm missing something here, because it once had a shoulder stock, it can't be made into an AOW (once a shotgun, always a shotgun).

I didn't see any mention of it having a shoulder stock, and it was mentioned that it was at one time registered as an AOW. That implies that it never had a shoulder stock.


As far as the question, I would say this could be done. There are several ways you could do it but I imagine the ATF is going to want the change to be "permanent". You could potentially silver solder a barrel liner in it. The ejector will need to be modified but other than that it should be a somewhat "easy" fix, but it will be time-consuming, costly, and may not shoot worth a darn afterwards.

Any chance there are any custom barrel makers that could make a new rifled barrel for it? That might be the easier route to go. Might be able to find a rifled replacement barrel if you look hard enough.

Another option is to try to locate a custom barrel maker to send the barrel off to have it "rifled" with some shallow cut rifling and then it can be used for .45 LC. and maintain the original ejector, look etc. and it should be able to fire .410 still. The rifling can be cut very shallow and very slow twist like the Taurus Judge.

Out of these options, if the gun means anything to the owner as far as sentimental value, the last one is going to be the best IMHO. It could also be the most costly option. I have no idea. I would start with some very small barrel manufacturers because that is going to be your most likely bet on getting one to actually do something like this.

It may also help to ask some custom rifle builders (like AJ Brown) if they know of any small-time barrel makers that might be willing to help with this. I'm not very connected in the gun-smithing circle because I only do my own smithing work right now.

 

[686 Shooter]

Well, I guess I did miss something here, no mention of a shoulder stock, but what most people refer to as a "trapper" would be a shoulder fired gun, H&R also made a 22 handgun called a "trapper", but the pistol grip shotgun is called a "Handy Gun", these were [STRIKE]licensed[/STRIKE] taxed as AOW's.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Well, I guess I did miss something here, no mention of a shoulder stock, but what most people refer to as a "trapper" would be a shoulder fired gun, H&R also made a 22 handgun called a "trapper", but the pistol grip shotgun is called a "Handy Gun", these were [STRIKE]licensed[/STRIKE] taxed as AOW's.

Hey, now we're getting somewhere. The op put "trapper" in quote I presume because he wasn't sure exactly what it is referred to. Now that we know what it's called finding a barrel will be much easier. It appears (from a quick internet search) that these were also made with rifled barrels on them so one would think that finding a rifled barrel for it should be pretty easy.


ETA, $900-1500 estimated value with ATF paperwork... so this isn't your average $80 modern H&R you get out of the case at walmart...

 

[CountryBoy19]

Found some info, looks like "Eric Larson" is going to be a good resource in the search for a barrel.

Harrington & Richardson - Handy Gun

​

By Marshall Williams.
​

The Harrington and Richardson Company of Worcester, Massachusetts, USA, (H&R) made approximately 54,000 Handy-Guns from 1921 until the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) outlawed shotguns with barrels less that 18 inches long and an over all length of 26 inches.

The guns will be found in both .410 bore and 28 gauge. Some .410 bore barrels are choked, some are not, and no 28 gauge barrels are choked. All of the .410s had 2 ½ inch chambers except for the final 2000 which have three inch chambers.

In addition to the little shotguns, the gun also was offered .22 long rifle, .32-20 and possibly other calibers with rifled barrels.
The guns with rifled barrels do not come under the NFA.

While The Handy-Gun is quite similar in design and in appearance to the H&R Model 1915 (No. 5) single barrel shotgun which H&R made concurrently with the Handy-Gun, the Handy-Gun was always made as a pistol on its own unique frame. Some small parts will interchange, but not stocks, fore ends, or barrels. Standard barrel lengths were 8 inches, 12 1/4 inches, and after 1934, a few were made with 18 inch barrels. Guns were made in many variations and can be found fitted with detachable stocks, two common styles of pistol grip, two common types of trigger guards, and with blue, nickle, or color case hardened finishes. Guns may be found with virtually any combination of features.

As noted, the National Firearms Act of 1934 outlawed these guns in the US, possession of any which were not properly registered is a felony, and the guns are contraband. The Gun Control Act of 1968 also affects the status of the guns. I will not attempt to sort this out. I will belabor the obvious by noting that these laws only apply within the United States and its territories. The guns were exported to many other countries including Canada and many of Latin American countries.

If properly registered, the H&R Handy-Gun is very collectible; value will depend on condition and features. The rarest variations include any with 18 inch barrels, stocks, and rifled barrel calibers.

The detachable stock also violates the NFA if attached to a gun with a barrel less than 18 inches for shotguns or 16 inches for rifled barrel guns. The 18 inch barrel version of the Handy-Gun does not fall within the provisions which legalized the 18 inch barrel Marble's Game Getter.

The pre-eminent expert on the H&R Handy Gun is Eric Larsen, a collector who has written a number of articles on them. I shall notify him of these inquiries and invite him to respond. His information can be found in R. L Wilson’s Price Guide to Gun Collecting, Krause Publications’ Standard Catalog of Firearms, Fjested’s Blue Book of Gun Values, and the 1996 Guns Illustrated. This last reference contains numerous photographs of Handy Gun variations and a very scholarly explanation of how the NFA and Gun Control Act of 1968 affect the guns.

I have responded to a number of inquiries on the Handy-Gun, Stevens Pocket Shotguns, and the Marble’s Game Getter. I always say this: If you possess one of these guns in the US with a barrel less than 18 inches long, and do not have registration papers for it, DO NOT RESPOND TO ME. I don’t want to know about it. See a lawyer.​

Source: http://www.fourten.org.uk/mwhandygun.html

ETA, link to a useful discussion on another forum that references "skillfully sleeved barrel" which leads me to believe that somebody has done this before to pass a .410 bore off as the much more coveted .22 lr, or 32-20 WCF versions: http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=113027

Apparently less than 100 of the 54,000 Handi-guns were made in 32-20 WCF.

Discussion about this exact discussion is taking place on thefiringline forum TODAY: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5280234

I'm not a member there, but if nobody else is a member I will register just to continue the discussion to hopefully find some help.

And another link that discusses the "sleeving" process: http://forums.gunbroker.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=367845

Getting close to hitting jackpot, here is a letter from Mr. Eric Larson himself discussion the options of removing a handy-gun from the perview of the NFA: http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/larson_owen_hr_letter.txt

And an obscure reference of where to ask about who is doing sleeve work, "Go over to the Doublegunshop.com discussion board and ask about having a barrel sleeved. They'll know who is doing such work currently" can be found here: http://forum.sixshootercommunity.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=10081

 

[j706]

Found some info, looks like "Eric Larson" is going to be a good resource in the search for a barrel.

Source: fourten shotgun resources - H&R Handy Gun

ETA, link to a useful discussion on another forum that references "skillfully sleeved barrel" which leads me to believe that somebody has done this before to pass a .410 bore off as the much more coveted .22 lr, or 32-20 WCF versions: H&R Handy Gun 32-20 8" Rifled Barrel - TheFirearmsForum.Com

Apparently less than 100 of the 54,000 Handi-guns were made in 32-20 WCF.

Discussion about this exact discussion is taking place on thefiringline forum TODAY: Has anyone made replacement barrels for the handy gun? - The Firing Line Forums

I'm not a member there, but if nobody else is a member I will register just to continue the discussion to hopefully find some help.

And another link that discusses the "sleeving" process: GunBroker.com Message Forums - H&R "Handy Gun".

Getting close to hitting jackpot, here is a letter from Mr. Eric Larson himself discussion the options of removing a handy-gun from the perview of the NFA: http://www.titleii.com/bardwell/larson_owen_hr_letter.txt

And an obscure reference of where to ask about who is doing sleeve work, "Go over to the Doublegunshop.com discussion board and ask about having a barrel sleeved. They'll know who is doing such work currently" can be found here: http://forum.sixshootercommunity.com/index.php?mode=thread&id=10081

Awesome Info! See I just knew INGO would come through!!

As for some of the above posted questions this gun is like the one posted above. I was actually quite surprised at how high a quality of gun this thing is. This is the first one I have ever ran across.

The guy that owns it is not a shooter. It was his dads for a long time and the only thing he has from him if I understood correctly.

 

[CountryBoy19]

Awesome Info! See I just knew INGO would come through!!

If you need any help with this let me know. I can try to help locate somebody to do this.

 

[j706]

If you need any help with this let me know. I can try to help locate somebody to do this.

The owner does need someone to do the job. It is way beyond by skill level or knowledge. The owner is far from destitute. I know he wants to keep the thing. And like I wrote, the gun is actually a high quality piece.

 

[CountryBoy19]

The owner does need someone to do the job. It is way beyond by skill level or knowledge. The owner is far from destitute. I know he wants to keep the thing. And like I wrote, the gun is actually a high quality piece.

Ok, I signed up for an account at doublegunshop.com to ask if anybody does barrel sleeving. Waiting for admin approval.

I will also see if I can get in contact with Eric Larson to see what ever came of that letter he sent to the ATF regarding acceptable methods of removing the handy-gun from the perview of the NFA.