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  1. #11
    Expert Grelber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by warhawk77 View Post
    It is a good idea to keep records of gun sales just in case they are ever needed but that is mainly to cover your butt. The FFL dealer does have to save their records of all sales until they close the business and then turn them over to the government to keep. I bet that is where your friends info got mixed up.
    I suspect this is right on both points.

    For me I am going to cya as you and others have suggested & require LTCH & DL & signed sheet indicating transfer. Really can't see the harm in it and we have all read about gun lawsuits popping up where not suspected or seemingly reasonable.

    My friend got his info from a gun shop employee, I'm guessing the guy confused the obligations of the shop with the obligations of an individual.

    USE, sorry, rules. I don't think there is any reason to worry about finding what you want though, just might take a month or two for things to get back to more normal.
    Some are prepared for a Zombie attack, some have never seen Nancy Pelosi.

  2. #12
    YES, WE SELL GUNS! IndyGunSafety's Avatar
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    There is no such thing as "registered in your name" here in Indiana. In face to face transactions you have no duty to record the transaction whatsoever. Some people prefer to do a bill of sale and yet others will require an LTCH as a poor man's background check before doing a face to face.

    There IS GUN REGISTRATION in many communities around the US, but nothing federal. Toledo, Columbus, and Cleveland Ohio are examples although there has been a court case or two recently challenging their gun registration. Not sure of the status.
    Yes there is a gun shop in Fishers! Open Friday 4 PM to 8 PM, and Saturday & Sunday noon to 4 PM for walk ins. Open by appointment noon to 7 PM all other days. Just call!

    Indy Gun Safety offers basic and advanced handgun training and NRA Basic and Instructor courses. www.IndyGunSafety.com

  3. #13
    INGO Clown printcraft's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grelber View Post
    ......My friend got his info from a gun shop employee...........
    Sincerely, R. Lee Obvious, Ph.D. a.k.a "The Droll Troll"
    I'm always trying to make a good impression.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow8088 View Post
    I cocked my head to the side a little and was admiring his piece.
    Quote Originally Posted by Leggdpms View Post
    I walked out they asked me if I had a permit to carry my firearm I told him yes I do and he said alright sir and shaked my hard and said he has respect.

  4. #14
    Grandmaster Kirk Freeman's Avatar
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    I was recently told by a friend that if I buy a gun new (i.e. have it registered in my name) and sell it at some point down the road then I need to keep a record of this transaction for 20 years.
    This is called transposition or see Kirk's First Law of the Internet. People take bits and pieces of laws from different jurisdictions and applications to shoehorn into "THE LAW", "THE BASIC LAW", or "in this state."

    I would speculate that your friend is from Illinois where there is this requirement for handguns. Or, your friend has heard about the length of time for FFLs keeping 4473s and believes it applies to everyone.

    There is no such requirement for non FFLs under Indiana or federal law.

    Not to worry, this happens all the time. Nothing to get flustered about. If someone tells you something about "THE LAW" or "THE BASIC LAW" simply ask for a citation.
    Get off my lawn, and go cut yours!

  5. #15
    Expert Grelber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyGunSafety View Post
    There is no such thing as "registered in your name" here in Indiana.
    Is it safe to assume that the form you sign when you buy the gun is retained by somebody?
    In other words maybe not 'registered' but always (or for 20 years or whatever) traceable back to the initial buyer?
    Some are prepared for a Zombie attack, some have never seen Nancy Pelosi.

  6. #16
    Grandmaster Kirk Freeman's Avatar
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    Is it safe to assume that the form you sign when you buy the gun is retained by somebody?
    In other words maybe not 'registered' but always (or for 20 years or whatever) traceable back to the initial buyer?
    You are safe there.
    Get off my lawn, and go cut yours!

  7. #17
    YES, WE SELL GUNS! IndyGunSafety's Avatar
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    Yes, it can be traced back to the original buyer. If the gun shows up at a crime scene it can be traced from the manufacturer to the wholesaler, then to the original gun shop. Only the gun shop retains the info. When you do a NICS check they have no idea of serial number, make, model, caliber or if the transfer was ever even completed. NICS is not allowed to store the information they collect unless the buyer has a "Unique Personal Identification Number", used for those who get delayed on a regular basis and have applied for such a number.

    If a gun has gone from a gun shop to a buyer who then sold it in a private sale, that MAY be the end of the trace if the seller did not do a bill of sale. Even if the gun gets back into the system by being sold to another gun dealer, and then RESOLD, ATF would have no way of knowing it was back in the system.

    We recommend a bill of sale for face to face transfers/sales, but that's only our opinion. The last thing you want is law enforcement knocking on your door because a gun traced to you was found at a triple homicide! We don't want to be part of the problem. Although we don't do private sales anymore even for our personal guns. We run them back through the shop.

    We respect the decision of others who may have privacy concerns, but WE PERSONALLY have no such concerns.
    Yes there is a gun shop in Fishers! Open Friday 4 PM to 8 PM, and Saturday & Sunday noon to 4 PM for walk ins. Open by appointment noon to 7 PM all other days. Just call!

    Indy Gun Safety offers basic and advanced handgun training and NRA Basic and Instructor courses. www.IndyGunSafety.com

  8. #18
    Plinker mfirem19's Avatar
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    4473 is a must. Simply a CYA

  9. #19
    Expert
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    Note the following information may not apply to NFA firearms (machine guns,silencers etc.)
    There is NO gun registration in Indiana period. The only record of any transaction is the bound book kept by an FFL DEALER. I am an FFL -03 (Collector of Curios and Relics) - I am required to record any purchase or disposal of any Curio or Relic firearm I have purchased during the duration that I hold the license. This does not pertain to any Non-C&R firearm I purchase or dispose of during this period - nor any firearm previously owned by me. The book must be kept up to date for inspection during the duration that I retain a license. When I quit renewing or send in my license, I can destroy the "Bound Book". It is against federal law for the ATF to retain any record of any APPROVED 4473 more than 24 hours. Records of anyone turned down can be kept forever. It is also against federal law for the ATF to keep any list of firearm owners. A few years ago they tried it and congress withheld funding for the department until the records were destroyed. Indiana does not keep any list period. So the ONLY record of any firearm Handgun, rifle or shotgun is the listing in the bound book of the FFL DEALER that first sold or transferred. the firearm. Of course the manufacturer does have records as to where new firearms were first shipped to what FFL Dealer. The law regarding individual sales is as follows: (Taken from ATF Federal Firearms Regulations - Reference Guide 2005 -received this year from the ATF with my License). A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing a firearm under Federal Law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However a firearm other than a Curio or Relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed Collector. [18 U.S.C.922(a)(3) and (5) , 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
    This make it pretty safe to transfer to anyone with a valid Indiana Drivers License, that appears to be an honest upright citizen. You are really not required to do ANY checking other than that. I do understand the reasoning that you want to be safe and also that no one wants to sell a gun to a BG,
    Life member NRA - FFL -03 (Collector) life LTCH

  10. #20
    INGO Brewer JettaKnight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by use View Post
    just go to local dealer and do transfer on 4473. it will cost the buyer a few bucks and it clears you of the sale. by the way don't you have a m1a for sale? i am new here and am trying to reach you

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