Stolen gun questions... Any LEO help is appreciated.

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  • stephen87

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    I'll make this story short. When I was younger, my dad carried a couple of revolvers. Someone broke into our house in 1992 and stole pretty much everything. Atari, NES, jewelry, and the guns. My dad has expressed interest in getting another gun, abundance of bills prevents him from doing so. I'm not sure he still has a case number for it. Hell, it was 20+ years ago, I doubt there are many who WOULD have the case number still. Is there any way to look up a case number for this? I would LOVE to get them back for him, but I know it's a long shot. It may be a birthday present for him to have one replaced. Any help is appreciated, someone who can speak positively about it, and not just "I think you can..." would be best.

    Thanks, guys.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    Sorry, took place in Indianapolis. I'm slow tonight. lol

    Literally, 1991-1993 timespan. I wonder if the shop still has the 4473 on file. :):

    IF they are still in bidness... they had better still have it. Now convincing them its worth their time to dig through box upon box of old paperwork is another matter entirely.

    So I assume you are wanting to know exactly what model it was so you can replace it exactly? (Instead of "here's a random revolver to replace your specific model") If so, why not start talking about guns as a pretext and ask him what they were during the normal course of the conversation? Might be easier than all other methods given the age of the case.
     

    stephen87

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    Nothing makes me think that they've been recovered, but after 20 years, it would be kinda cool to get them back if they have been recovered.

    I've asked him what they were. He can't remember. I assume they were probably a couple of cheap revolvers, or knowing my dad, a cheap one and a decent one. He just remembers they were .38 revolvers.

    As far as I know, it was Bradis that he bought from. It was the ONLY shop he would set foot in. How long do they have to keep records of everything? I assume he didn't JUST buy them when they were stolen, so as far as I know, he could have had them many years before they were stolen.
     

    churchmouse

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    Nothing makes me think that they've been recovered, but after 20 years, it would be kinda cool to get them back if they have been recovered.

    I've asked him what they were. He can't remember. I assume they were probably a couple of cheap revolvers, or knowing my dad, a cheap one and a decent one. He just remembers they were .38 revolvers.

    As far as I know, it was Bradis that he bought from. It was the ONLY shop he would set foot in. How long do they have to keep records of everything? I assume he didn't JUST buy them when they were stolen, so as far as I know, he could have had them many years before they were stolen.

    I wish you luck in your quest.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    They are required by federal law to keep them indefinitely. When a shop closes all of the records get shipped to the ATF for storage so that if needed, the 4473s can be referenced later.

    The theory is to make a gun traceable, but ONLY on paper and not make it readily searchable for the safety of our liberty.

    So Frank, BBI, etc recover a stolen gun. Its a Glock. "they" contact Glock and say "who did you sell this serial number to? They say "Joe's wholesale gunz". They call Joe's. Joe says "I sold that to Bradis." They call Bradis. Bradis finds the 4473 on file and says "I sold it to Stephen87". They knock on your door. "sir you were sold a Glock that was used in a crime." "Oh, that? I sold it to my buddy on INGO, Churchmouse." (:laugh:) continue ad nasueum until they find the end of the trail due to connecting a purchaser to the crime, or hit a dead end due to lack of a bill of sale, boating accident, etc. THAT is why some folks insist on a bill of sale for private transactions. To prove they got rid of it.


    I may be wrong, but if it was recovered and he wasnt able to be contacted to return it, it was sold in an auction most likely. Its not likely to be sitting in a property room waiting for him to contact an agency.

    But Im sure he would love a new revolver even if it isnt exactly the same. Im sure the thought would mean more to him than anything else.
     

    churchmouse

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    They are required by federal law to keep them indefinitely. When a shop closes all of the records get shipped to the ATF for storage so that if needed, the 4473s can be referenced later.

    The theory is to make a gun traceable, but ONLY on paper and not make it readily searchable for the safety of our liberty.

    So Frank, BBI, etc recover a stolen gun. Its a Glock. "they" contact Glock and say "who did you sell this serial number to? They say "Joe's wholesale gunz". They call Joe's. Joe says "I sold that to Bradis." They call Bradis. Bradis finds the 4473 on file and says "I sold it to Stephen87". They knock on your door. "sir you were sold a Glock that was used in a crime." "Oh, that? I sold it to my buddy on INGO, Churchmouse." (:laugh:) continue ad nasueum until they find the end of the trail due to connecting a purchaser to the crime, or hit a dead end due to lack of a bill of sale, boating accident, etc. THAT is why some folks insist on a bill of sale for private transactions. To prove they got rid of it.


    I may be wrong, but if it was recovered and he wasnt able to be contacted to return it, it was sold in an auction most likely. Its not likely to be sitting in a property room waiting for him to contact an agency.

    But Im sure he would love a new revolver even if it isnt exactly the same. Im sure the thought would mean more to him than anything else.

    1st......A Glock.....really.....:scratch:

    2nd....I think they do sell these after a time period has passed.

    3rd...If your dad has stayed on the radar and he has not been contacted it is likely it has not been recovered locally.

    4th...A Glock.......:)
     

    jsx1043

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    PM me your dad's full name and address and I'll look to see if it's still in the system. If it's not on the computerized records, (I don't know if our two latest report systems go back that far) you might be able to go to Room E100 at the City County Building and see if they have a way to track it down.
     

    M67

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    They are required by federal law to keep them indefinitely

    FFLs must keep a copy of each ATF Form 4473 for which a NICS check has been initiated, regardless of whether the transfer of the firearm was made. If the transfer is not made, the FFL must keep the Form 4473 for 5 years after the date of the NICS inquiry. If the transfer is made, the FFL must keep the Form 4473 for 20 years after the date of the sale or disposition. Forms 4473 with respect to a transfer that did not take place must be separately maintained.

    https://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/brady-law.html

    Not indefinitely, but most stores probably do just to cover their ars
     

    Cameramonkey

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    1st......A Glock.....really.....:scratch:

    2nd....I think they do sell these after a time period has passed.

    3rd...If your dad has stayed on the radar and he has not been contacted it is likely it has not been recovered locally.

    4th...A Glock.......:)

    Sorry, I couldnt resist. I started the story with a Glock, Your name was at the top of the screen, I felt the need to poke the bear... what can I say? I'm weak willed. :p

    Everyone knows what Churchmouse says. "Why is shooting a Glock like riding a moped? They are both a LOT of fun, but you dont want your friends to see you doing it." :stickpoke: :rofl:
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    They are required by federal law to keep them indefinitely. When a shop closes all of the records get shipped to the ATF for storage so that if needed, the 4473s can be referenced later.

    The theory is to make a gun traceable, but ONLY on paper and not make it readily searchable for the safety of our liberty.

    So Frank, BBI, etc recover a stolen gun. Its a Glock. "they" contact Glock and say "who did you sell this serial number to? They say "Joe's wholesale gunz". They call Joe's. Joe says "I sold that to Bradis." They call Bradis. Bradis finds the 4473 on file and says "I sold it to Stephen87". They knock on your door. "sir you were sold a Glock that was used in a crime." "Oh, that? I sold it to my buddy on INGO, Churchmouse." (:laugh:) continue ad nasueum until they find the end of the trail due to connecting a purchaser to the crime, or hit a dead end due to lack of a bill of sale, boating accident, etc. THAT is why some folks insist on a bill of sale for private transactions. To prove they got rid of it.


    I may be wrong, but if it was recovered and he wasnt able to be contacted to return it, it was sold in an auction most likely. Its not likely to be sitting in a property room waiting for him to contact an agency.

    But Im sure he would love a new revolver even if it isnt exactly the same. Im sure the thought would mean more to him than anything else.

    Well, actually if we recover a stolen gun we only know it was stolen if it was reported as such by the owner. Since the owner reported it stolen, there's no reason to run a trace on it, we already know who the last rightful owner was. I have no idea how long the property room holds them before they are destroyed if the owner can't be contacted, which is why if you have a stolen firearm report and you get a new phone number, move, etc. its not a bad idea to call with your case number and update it.

    Guns occasionally get recovered even decades after the fact. IIRC, the oldest steal I ever recovered was a shotgun dropped by a robbery suspect that was stolen in St. Louis about 20 years before the recovery.
     

    stephen87

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    And THAT is why I would like to check it. It could have been recovered 30 days ago for all I know. I see some officers post up sometimes about recovered guns, but because I know nothing about them, I can't say "that's my dad's."
     

    BehindBlueI's

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    PM me your dad's full name and address and I'll look to see if it's still in the system. If it's not on the computerized records, (I don't know if our two latest report systems go back that far) you might be able to go to Room E100 at the City County Building and see if they have a way to track it down.

    I don't think Zclient or Flag goes back that far, but I could be wrong. Only one way to find out.
     

    Snipercop

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    Sounds like you've got a lot of takers. I tried to PM you but since I am such a newb, it would only let me PM staff.... The systems have changed several times since I have been in LE... We used to call them into a line that was transcribed then went to the Tiburon system which we had to type eliminating the transcriptionist. We just recently went to the Interact911 reporting system. All the reports are obtainable, it just takes a little digging. Provided one of the officers can locate the reported serial numbers, we should be able to tell if they were ever recovered.
     
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