Stop Pointing Guns At Yourself

[Kirk Freeman]

Sure, sure, it looks cool, but it isn't cool. It's stupid, reckless and foolish.

Don't point a gun at yourself no matter what movie you watched.

SayUncle » This is why you should practice drawing a gun

 

[ljk]

But you gotta punch it out, do you even tactical, bro.

 

[Hohn]

It raises the issue of draw safety and contributing factors-- firearm action (DAO, DA/SA, SAO) holster design, etc.

I'm actually thinking about moving away from striker-fired for reasons just like these..

 

[Hookeye]

He was dressed too cool to have made that flub.

 

[HoughMade]

What was his left hand doing out there?

 

[littletommy]

I didn't see a beard, there's your problem......or, wait, is it beards that PREVENT nds, or beards that CAUSE them? I can't keep track anymore.

 

[iChokePeople]

It raises the issue of draw safety and contributing factors-- firearm action (DAO, DA/SA, SAO) holster design, etc.

I'm actually thinking about moving away from striker-fired for reasons just like these..

Just curious -- why does that event cause you to move away from striker-fired?

 

[HoughMade]

Just curious -- why does that event cause you to move away from striker-fired?

Inability to keep one's index finger straight?

 

[roscott]

It raises the issue of draw safety and contributing factors-- firearm action (DAO, DA/SA, SAO) holster design, etc.

I'm actually thinking about moving away from striker-fired for reasons just like these..

But his gun wasn't striker fired and had a safety?

 

[Hohn]

Just curious -- why does that event cause you to move away from striker-fired?

It's not this particular event.


I've started thinking about the complexity involved in a SD situation. Starting with what and how you carry, to how you draw, placing the weapon into action, and recovering/aftermath.

Since I absolutely reject a manual safety for a SD gun, that leaves trigger management as the only "safety" left.

I think about the famous BlackHawk Serpa incidents where many people inadvertently shot themselves (not just TEX) Would those firearms have discharged if they were a P226? Or a 92F? Or a DAO revolver?


I look at my P320 trigger and get a little scared. Can I draw that thing without it catching on a drawstrap, or a beltloop? I practice not enough. But the practice I'm doing shows me just how easily something could go wrong. Not to mention re-holstering a firearm that's cocked and ready to fire and cannot be turned off. It's inherently riskier than re-holstering a SAO that can have the hammer dropped or a DA gun that can be decocked, or a DAO gun with a much longer and heavier trigger.

I'm starting to think the "advantage" of always having the same trigger pull is likely overstated. Especially once you resign yourself to the reality that you are going to need to discharge multiple shots from that horribly ineffective handgun. Is it worth dealing with a stiff first pull to get the light, short SA pulls later that might enable excellent accuracy?

Perhaps a long DAO pull like a Kahr or P250 is actually the better way to go for carry, where you get the same trigger pull every time put improved margin against ND/AD by virtue of long travel?

It's really hard to carry a gun without pointing it at yourself. If you appendix carry, it is inevitable-- you WILL point the gun right at your junk or your femoral artery.

So I'm pondering if I want to migrate to a P-07 or a P239 or a PM9 or a Kahr P9. Or even a P250 Compact (since I'm already on the sig modular platform).


For range usage or run/gun, I think a striker is superb. But for CC, I'm having second thoughts.

 

[iChokePeople]

OK, thanks. Interesting thoughts. Thinking about your choices and rethinking them as you acquire information and experience is a good thing.

 

[68NOVA]

Ur not the boss of me!

 

[HoughMade]

Those Serpa incidents reinforced the necessity of the straight finger. Used in that manner, the Serpa is safe, or at least as safe and anything that holds a killing machine can be. The straight finger is a must for, essentially, all holsters. Train, train, train to keep it straight and resist the desire to let it curl towards the trigger. Where the Serpa is weak is that it demands strict adherence and training and if you start using the curled finger with the tip to release the lock, it can be unforgiving. Use a straight finger and the pad on the lock and you already have the finger in the position it should be when the gun is drawn (which was the idea in the first place).

As to this incident, hooking that finger when drawing is the culprit. Empty (or blue) gun training at drawing alone until you don't even have to think to keep the finger straight (and well beyond) is required. Don't have the discipline to train and practice that much? Wear your gun for show only and leave it in the holster. Better yet, don't carry one at all.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

Your concerns are valid. Sometimes I think I shouldn't carry at all, as big a role as Murphy's law plays in other areas of my life.
On the other hand, just look at the guy's finger.

 

[jpr]

What was his left hand doing out there?

Coming darn close to getting a hole in it.

 

[Roland of Gilead]

There is good reasons why the serpa is banned from many training classes. It is not a good holster, and it is not safe to use a holster that is proven to not work if any muck gets in it.

 

[LP1]

RO was negligent too. I'm flabbergasted that he was allowed to continue shooting after endangering others as well as himself. Did I hear "yeah, you're good" or something like that?

It also looked like they created an unsafe situation by having so many people moving in close proximity to each other. Unless the objective was to thin the herd...

 

[Dean C.]

This is why I do NOT carry a 1911 if I am wearing heavy gloves during the winter time. I tried it out with my winter gloves here recently (unloaded safety checked gun of course) when my trigger finger goes into the trigger guard and rests on the trigger face the added width from my glove actually compresses with trigger slightly (only the take up not the "wall portion" of the trigger pull) The reduced sensitivity also makes pulling the 1911 trigger more difficult as feeling the wall through the glove is harder as well. When I am out in the cold and wearing heavy gloves I carry my P229 or a P320 as there is allot more room in the trigger guard to work with and it is more glove friendly due to the heavier and more "take-up-ie" triggers.

 

[TheHUTMan]

RO was negligent too. I'm flabbergasted that he was allowed to continue shooting after endangering others as well as himself. Did I hear "yeah, you're good" or something like that?

I thought the exact same thing, and I did hear "Your Good" -- well, golly, that's great. This guy would scare me if he was next to me - could be his hand our YOUR body. If it were me, he would have to put it back in the holster, unload, and spend some time dry practicing on how to draw properly without getting your other hand and boom finger in the way.

 

[NyleRN]

RO was negligent too. I'm flabbergasted that he was allowed to continue shooting after endangering others as well as himself. Did I hear "yeah, you're good" or something like that?

It also looked like they created an unsafe situation by having so many people moving in close proximity to each other. Unless the objective was to thin the herd...

So was this a Tactical Response event?