Holsters without a lock are dangerous according to your friend...

The #1 community for Gun Owners in Indiana

Member Benefits:

  • Fewer Ads!
  • Discuss all aspects of firearm ownership
  • Discuss anti-gun legislation
  • Buy, sell, and trade in the classified section
  • Chat with Local gun shops, ranges, trainers & other businesses
  • Discover free outdoor shooting areas
  • View up to date on firearm-related events
  • Share photos & video with other members
  • ...and so much more!
  • Excalibur

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   2   0
    May 11, 2012
    1,855
    38
    NWI
    I always come here to put it out that I have "the friend" and I'm sure everyone else has "that friend", who is either a combat vet, most likely old enough that when he went off from active duty, it's where they started implemented more changes and new things like the Marines now using entirely ACOGs and now recently approving gen 3 Pmags, proliferation of electronic optics and pretty much the extinction of the stock AR-15 look of round handguards, stock and A2 type grips (at least in the civilian world). So when you say, "Oh, I got a new holster.It's from Raven Concealment" and the first thing he asks is "what kind of retention does it have?" And if you say anything but a lock like a button/switch/or an actual latch over the gun to keep it from "falling out", he'll scold you saying if someone you're fighting sees your gun, he'll just yank it out. "Get a Safariland holster with the thumb switch". It'll make it harder for someone to grab your gun and it won't fall out during a tumble.

    As a guy who wasn't in the military or law enforcement, let alone been in combat, every time I say the stuff advertised, he'll throw it back at me. "I didn't use that in the Marines because *insert his reasons*.

    He's my best friend but sometimes, I try to talk LESS about new gun stuff with him because he'd get into a tangent about his experience in combat. While I do agree that if a piece of equipment is "combat proven", it sorta of makes it better than "untested" product. So no matter what advantages I tell him about a simple kydex holster for IWB, he'll pass it off and say that's no good.

    Other things he doesn't like. M-lok handguards. Reasons, *the military, specifically the Marines don't use it so he will not trust if it is effective and will get a rifle with quad rails.*

    Hates that original Magpul MOE/CTR stock because that gap will get snagged on equipment, even though I've heard nothing about that happening ever and even MARSOC has some guy's adding this to their rifles.

    Hesitant to get red dot sights because he doesn't trust their durability, even though ironically he has a cheap crappy NC-Star open sight on his very expensive Benelli M4. He is starting to VERY slowly be opened to new ideas. I think one day he'll get a better optic since he just accepted how useful a quick detach mount for his optic is. He still say iron sights first than "fancy red dots" like a man from the early 90s, even though he served in the mid 2000s. To be fair, not a lot of front line troops had optics at the time. He shakes his head at how the Corps only uses ACOGs to qualify for marksmanship.

    He has a point where you need to master your fundamentals and I agree with that, but then I also agree after you've mastered the basics, you can add whatever you want that will enhance your effectiveness in combat. Red dots lets you see better, acquire targets faster than irons and can help you see at night. Different stocks conform to your body better as well as a different grip. The M16/M4 rifle series was a system designed to be a one size fits most and if you don't like it, suck it up.

    At least he's not so stiff with getting his own guns that he'd get a Beretta M92 because he used an M9 while serving. He actually hated that and prefer a simple Glock. Like I said. It's hard to talk to my buddy about new things unlike other guys I know that are more "opened" to new things. I know a bunch of other guys from various branches and they tell me the same thing but also tell me how "eventually", one will adapt to new things. I try to be patient with my friend and only talk about certain gun stuff with him.
     

    KJQ6945

    Grandmaster
    Site Supporter
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Aug 5, 2012
    37,538
    149
    Texas
    He just needs to adapt and overcome.

    I thought it was weird the first time I saw an AR without triangle hand guards. :D
     

    Vigilant

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
    11,659
    83
    Plainfield
    He should be right at home here, all that fancy stuff that costs money, the USMC doesn't get til later! Irons, cuz they're cheaper, M16A4....because it's cheaper(to retrofit what we gots, rather than implement a new carbine), 1911's, because .45(and we gots a bunch sitting around the Navy don't want no mo), and its cheaper. The USMC, for the premier fighting force they are, gets the budgetary shaft when appropriations come around, so they have made due with what was available. That may or may not have filtered down to the average Devil Dog in their pseudo-brainwashed condition?
     

    Leo

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    30   0   0
    Mar 3, 2011
    9,734
    113
    Lafayette, IN
    Whatever equipment you choose, train with it and think every aspect through. If something works for you, keep it, if it does not, throw it away and change to something else.

    You and your equipment are a system. The whole system needs to work together to be competent. COMPETENCE is the goal.
     

    hog slayer

    Expert
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 10, 2015
    1,087
    38
    Camp Lejeune, NC
    Let me say that you have yourself a fine friend. You both have differences of opinion that are based on your upbringing and then the experiences you had as an adult. You surely have skill sets or experiences that you just know he has no way of understanding. Likewise, he has no way of explaining to you the number of the experiences that he's had for at least one tour which is going to be four years more than likely. The reality of this situation you find yourself in is that he's gonna need you and for more areas than firearms understanding. It sounds as if he's recently discharged and he will soon find himself in a number of struggles that he was not prepared for. This transition will come him like an enemy that he has never met. You stand to be the best source of comfort that he has for that timeframe. When you look at servicemembers leaving the service where they have risked their lives or witnessed friends blowing up or they've been rocketed or mortared or seen people (good or bad) who've been blown up you just cannot erase that. they want to leave that lifestyle, but they have no idea what it is that they're going to go do, or even how they will do it. The sneaky enemy is the one it's inside and they do not see him coming.

    Now for this half wit that said that he does a better job of picking friends, he has no concept of the friend that you have. Your friend will almost assuredly sacrifice nearly every single thing he owns if you were to ever call him in a time of need. The time that he doesn't show up to help you when you said that you needed him he won't sleep right for a year, he'll never let that go. You have the best possible friend that you could ever ask for. You want somebody to bury a body, he's your man. You need somebody to pick you up someplace you should never of been, he's your man. you need money, he'll give you everything he's got. So don't listen to nitwits. I understand you're going to feel frustrated at times. Just get on here and find your service members or your veterans and we'll chat with you about your buddy.

    by the way, this acclimatization to civilian life that you may of heard about will take longer than just a few months. Prepare yourself for that so you can reciprocate the best sort of friendship.

    semper fi
     

    in625shooter

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 21, 2008
    2,136
    48
    Your friend suffers from what Pat McNamara refers to as institutional inbreeding.
    I was military and LE for the better part of last 31 years and you see it all the time. A lot of folks buy into the Kool aid of their said service or agency.

    While something with retention makes sense for Military LE or say you transport prisoners for most the rest of us for off duty or general carrying we will all probably live through the night with a Blade Tech or whatever. Besides if your in a fight an have time to worry about "OMG he's ripping my sidearm off my body" you've got a lot bigger problems.

    Remindes me of another forum where they were going on about barrel length of a Glock 19-17 and 34. And a Tactical Johnny interjected "I'd never use a 34 because of leverage an opponent would gain in a building entry etc". Funny all the teams including FBI that use 5" 1911 that don't worry about that but what do they know .

    Had to laugh at that one. 1/2 an inch won't make much a difference outside of the bedroom for most of us.

    People especially people that don't listen to what they are saying can be pretty funny.
     
    Last edited:

    Dundee

    Marksman
    Rating - 100%
    10   0   0
    Apr 2, 2012
    246
    18
    West Lafayette
    Patience grasshopper!!! An IDPA event or a few will cure the locking holster issue, at least it did with my jar head pal. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't easy getting him to go the first time. Then taking him to USPSA completely blew his mind. Most people are at least a bit competitive, that's how he ended up trying new things. My pal has completely gone over to the dark side and loves 3Gun. Now our conversations sound more like, "remember when you said ..."
     

    nakinate

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    9   0   0
    May 1, 2013
    13,425
    113
    Noblesville
    All I can say is there is a big difference between being a civilian who carries concealed and being a soldier in combat. If he can't see the difference between the two then I'd keep using the strategy you've employed. Just avoid the topic with him. I have good friends that I know I should avoid certain topics with. No big deal.
     

    Excalibur

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   2   0
    May 11, 2012
    1,855
    38
    NWI
    I'd like to say, I appreciate everyone's comments about my dealings with my friend. He’s still stiff, but he has a lot of good advice to give me. As I said before, he taught me how to take apart and clean my rifle, though he more or less just watched me do most of it and told me what I was doing wrong like I over lube my stuff, and of course commenting on the things I got on my rifle, like why I needed the BCM’s Mod 3 charging handle because it’s so much bigger than a stock charging handle he’s used to. He says it’ll get caught in my gear or snag. Which, is possible, but has yet to happen.

    He didn’t like the old Magpul CTR stock I had before I changed it because he said the “hole” will also get snag in things and he doesn’t like the new BCM gunfighter stock I got because it’s hard for him to press the stock adjuster, saying if you needed to adjust it in a fight, it’s too hard, even though I was able to do it because I knew how to actually press the switch to adjust the stock. He doesn’t like the handguard I got because it’s harder to take off for cleaning, which I do admit, can be a problem…in the field. He's not a fan of the M-LOK or the Key Mod from BCM I have on my rifle. He does like the Inforce light I got to a point.

    I do semi agree that the BAD lever is a bit unnecessary. I’ve only ever used it to clear malfunctions and nothing else. With the BAD lever, I have a better control over my rifle when clearing malfunctions. He doesn’t want to hear it because “Insert Marine Corps experience and they don’t use it in the corps” reasons.

    I had the Taran Tactical base plates in my new Glock 43, but he hates it because it’s made of aluminum but doesn’t quite explain to me the problems if it is and kinda contradicts why I needed to extend the mags from the stock G43 mags because Glock forgot to make them in a higher capacity. He also didn't like how the TTI baseplates covers up the gap behind and under the magwell, saying you use that to get a stuck mag out if you have a jam. Which I don't use.

    He’s also kinda weird with carry guns. He has no full size guns or compact guns, especially carry because the subcompact Glocks can take all mags while the higher you go, they can only take their respective mags but not the smaller ones. I tried to talk to him on why be focused on having only a subcompact and take away the advantage of having a compact size or full size handgun for carry. As if the odds of me running into someone with a subcompact gun that takes a similar mag to mine, but smaller is unlikely but more than likely, I’d run into a guy with a completely different gun that mine, so magazine exchange would be a moot point then.

    And back to the subject of the holster, which is the actual title of this thread. I told him that if a guy who has his experience, who is actively watching for people that are carrying and wants to attack me. Like if HE is coming for me. I got no chance really. He will end my ass. I tell him, I am prepared to fight the petty criminals that make up 99.9% of all crime. A mass shooter or just “Ass hole as I call them” is planning to kill a lot of people. He’ll be most likely thinking on where’s the safest place for him to kill the most amount of people and least likely to be armed. They aren’t that smart from look at all these past cases. I conceal my gun very well, IWB and it is very secure for if I fall or tumble, which I tried. If I am in a struggle, of course I’d be worried about my gun as well lock or no lock, it doesn’t matter.

    The handgun thing aside. All his criticisms seems to always come from his own experience, which boils down to having no experience with the stuff I have or use, hence to him, they are useless to him. I tried to explain to him that front line troops are pretty much told to make the most of what they have, but if you have the choice, you’d get something different or even better. Doesn’t want to hear that because I am not a Marine like him nor have any combat experience. Doesn't matter how many classes I take or how much I practice and apply the stuff on my guns and gear in training, he'll always say that I don't have combat experience and experience trumps it...which I kinda agree too.

    Still my best friend though.


    Patience grasshopper!!! An IDPA event or a few will cure the locking holster issue, at least it did with my jar head pal. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't easy getting him to go the first time. Then taking him to USPSA completely blew his mind. Most people are at least a bit competitive, that's how he ended up trying new things. My pal has completely gone over to the dark side and loves 3Gun. Now our conversations sound more like, "remember when you said ..."

    He doesn't see the purpose of competitive shooting. It isn't combat shooting to him and it's all about getting a high score and beating the clock...which I kinda agree with him. Still fun though.
     
    Last edited:

    aztec777

    Plinker
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Dec 15, 2016
    73
    6
    Reno
    It's funny how the advance of technology scares some people. Leather was a great material for holsters, but kydex has been in use for a while now. It is lighter and thinner than leather, yet some people criticize it.

    The old adage of seeing part of the elephant is true. Just because some of us have seen a part of the elephant does not mean that we have seen it all. There is so much to learn. Always be the student.

    Granted that there is a ton of junk equipment out there. It is our duty to test it out for ourselves to find its limitations. If there is something better out there we will naturally move towards it. Easy enough for some, but not all of us.
     

    Brad69

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jul 16, 2016
    5,104
    77
    Perry county
    I had the privilege of serving in the U.S. Army for 24 years.
    I have seen everything evolve from M-16 to the modern M4.
    I recently took my first training course outside the Army it was great I learned some new tricks.
    My knowledge is not the be all know all of life.
    Getting shot at and shooting at people is more like playing "Cowboys and Indians" than the "experts" wanna admit.
    If you are not leaking red stuff and can talk you did good.
    If you believe that the enemy cares how you hold your weapon or what sight or stock you have you are Wrong!
    After the first few years in the Army and gaining responsibility my actions in a firefight are far different than shooting.
    Where do I direct the fire ? who's hit ? How much ammo do we have ? Where the hell is my lieutenant and what is hell is he doing?
    When I was a 1SG I had the weight of the world on me everything my Company did or did not do is my responsibility.
    Competition shooting is fun to watch and the shooters are good at their craft does that translate into real world?
    Real people move fast and often in unpredictable directions they do not often stand still when you are trying to kill them.
    A human can often absorb several hits and be a threat even after a competition shooter would be at the next station.
    Who am I to judge all trigger time is good.
    When it comes to equipment what works for you is the best.
    It has to be reliable all of the time in all weather 100% every time if not it's junk.
    I have seen many use a Serpa holster for over a year in combat and never shoot them-self.
    Some like the "Yeager" shoot themself with it easily.
    Mil spec equipment has the advantage of being tested thoroughly in conditions that most civilians would never encounter.
    My holster of choice for real field use is a thigh holster with strap retention and a lanyard why a lanyard why not?
    If I am carrying concealed I do not need a retention holster period!
     

    in625shooter

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 21, 2008
    2,136
    48
    If you really want to see what does or doesn't work for you. I suggest attend and shoot in a few matches. IDPA or IPSC. While yes it's a game and most games it you can keep it real and shoot with your carry stuff (provided it fits the safety rules). There will be more than a few folks that shoot only for practice with what they carry. And might have great suggestions on gear no one here has even mentioned.

    Lots of great effective gear for the real world out there and as long as it works for you doesn't matter what your friend or a stranger on a gun forum says.

    Good luck
     

    SSGSAD

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    14   0   0
    Dec 22, 2009
    12,404
    48
    Town of 900 miles
    He should be right at home here, all that fancy stuff that costs money, the USMC doesn't get til later! Irons, cuz they're cheaper, M16A4....because it's cheaper(to retrofit what we gots, rather than implement a new carbine), 1911's, because .45(and we gots a bunch sitting around the Navy don't want no mo), and its cheaper. The USMC, for the premier fighting force they are, gets the budgetary shaft when appropriations come around, so they have made due with what was available. That may or may not have filtered down to the average Devil Dog in their pseudo-brainwashed condition?


    THIS right here, is the TRUTH .....

    While on A D, we used to joke,

    we get brand new equipt., after the Army, has had it for 20 years .....
     

    Excalibur

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   2   0
    May 11, 2012
    1,855
    38
    NWI
    Still appreciating the comments, guys.

    As I said before, my pal contradicts himself a lot. One moment, he finds something actually useful and the next time we have the conversation, he forgets about it and goes back to saying it's crap because it ain't combat proven or if it is, he says they didn't use it when he was in the corps, so why use it now?

    It hard to debate a guy who has actual military training while the amount I've had isn't the months in basic training he's gotten. But I do my best to drop hints and suggestions. See if he wants to adapt to the changing gear. I mean, sure, in a real fight, it doesn't truly matter what you have but if you have even a little thing that might give you an edge and you've trained and practiced on it, than all the better. That's why I kinda like Magpul's motto, which others use "Unfair advantages". It doesn't apply to just having training and combat experience.
     

    in625shooter

    Master
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Mar 21, 2008
    2,136
    48
    Still appreciating the comments, guys.

    As I said before, my pal contradicts himself a lot. One moment, he finds something actually useful and the next time we have the conversation, he forgets about it and goes back to saying it's crap because it ain't combat proven or if it is, he says they didn't use it when he was in the corps, so why use it now?

    It hard to debate a guy who has actual military training while the amount I've had isn't the months in basic training he's gotten. But I do my best to drop hints and suggestions. See if he wants to adapt to the changing gear. I mean, sure, in a real fight, it doesn't truly matter what you have but if you have even a little thing that might give you an edge and you've trained and practiced on it, than all the better. That's why I kinda like Magpul's motto, which others use "Unfair advantages". It doesn't apply to just having training and combat experience.

    Respectfully just because someone was in the military does not mean they have had acceptable military training. Even in combat arms unit's there is 8th grade, JV and Varsity level training, real experience and ability.

    Most with good balance training and ability from the military will stay consistent. And just from what you have stated and Again I mean this respectfully if your friend contradicts himself that is usually a sign of trying to keep up with what he reads or sees on YouTube than falling back on experience or training.
     
    Top Bottom