Obama's Tyranny

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  • mrjarrell

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    Radley Balko (with a link to Glenn Greenwald) takes a look at Obama's latest invocation of "state secrets" as he order the assassinations of multiple people, at least one of whom is an American citizen. No due process, no recourse. Just a presidential order and a stamp of "state secrets". He could do the same to anyone, anywhere using the "national security" reasoning.

    Tyranny | The Agitator
     

    Fletch

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    Cool! I'm sure this is exactly what the Republicans had in mind when they ushered in the new Security State. So exciting to see how things turn out when the power changes hands.
     

    SemperFiUSMC

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    Radley Balko (with a link to Glenn Greenwald) takes a look at Obama's latest invocation of "state secrets" as he order the assassinations of multiple people, at least one of whom is an American citizen. No due process, no recourse. Just a presidential order and a stamp of "state secrets". He could do the same to anyone, anywhere using the "national security" reasoning.

    Tyranny | The Agitator

    I'm kinda torn on this. No, I'm not. This is not a guy who cheated on his taxes. This is not a guy who shoplifted. This is not a guy who stole his neighbor's goat. This isn't a guy who killed the poolboy Pablo the Thong Rider in a jealous fit of rage. No, this is a grade A dirtbag terrorist plotting to kill Americans and cause mayhem in this country and abroad.

    First, while I'm not normally a fan of Wikipedia, here's the guy's terrorist resume: Anwar al-Awlaki - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    He's a dual citizen who shows no allegience to the US. The only reason he wants to be a US citizen now is because he hears the Predator drone flying overhead in the secret undisclosed craphole he's staying in while plotting his next terror attack on the US.

    As long as he's not on American soil, I say fry him. You don't get to plot terrorist attacks against real Americans then hide behind the American citizenship you so easily spit on. If this guy wants the protection afforded him in US courts, he can turn himself in to the nearest American embassy. Otherwise, screw him.

    If the government loses this case it will open the floodgates for terrorist recruiting of American citizens.

    While I'm normally a fan or Radley Balko he got this one wrong.
     

    Joe Williams

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    He's ordered the killing of terrorists.

    Good for him, I'm surprised he's had the backbone to do so. Election season seems to have motivated him to at least pretend to want to protect this nation.

    Sorry... I just can't find it within myself to sympathize with terrorists and others who have declared war on this nation.
     

    antsi

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    Sorry... I just can't find it within myself to sympathize with terrorists and others who have declared war on this nation.

    It's not about having sympathy for terrorists.

    It is about having respect for the Constitution and the Rule of Law.

    Once you give government this power to violate the freedoms (up to an including assassination) of anyone they declare a terrorist, you just might be surprised who gets labelled a "terrorist." We've already had a homeland security director declare that TEA Party supporters and gun owners are "domestic terrorist threats." That could be you and me and everyone else on INGO, buddy.

    The Soviet Union did the same thing in Stalin's day. If you got the label of "Enemy of the People," all kinds of things could happen to you. And, just by coincidence, anyone Stalin didn't like was an "Enemy of the People." Nobody had to be proven to be an enemy of the people, there was no way to fight this charge or appeal it. Once you're on that list, you're a dead man - or in a Gulag, which was worse.

    I guess what you're saying is that you trust Obama and his cronies to determine who might be a "terrorist threat," and anyone on that list has no rights. Personally, I don't trust the man (or any government official) to that extent.

    It is scary to see that you have so much faith in The Obama, that you're willing to give him arbitrary powers of life and death over every American citizen.
     

    SemperFiUSMC

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    It's not about having sympathy for terrorists.

    It is about having respect for the Constitution and the Rule of Law.

    Once you give government this power to violate the freedoms (up to an including assassination) of anyone they declare a terrorist, you just might be surprised who gets labelled a "terrorist." We've already had a homeland security director declare that TEA Party supporters and gun owners are "domestic terrorist threats." That could be you and me and everyone else on INGO, buddy.

    The Soviet Union did the same thing in Stalin's day. If you got the label of "Enemy of the People," all kinds of things could happen to you. And, just by coincidence, anyone Stalin didn't like was an "Enemy of the People." Nobody had to be proven to be an enemy of the people, there was no way to fight this charge or appeal it. Once you're on that list, you're a dead man - or in a Gulag, which was worse.

    I guess what you're saying is that you trust Obama and his cronies to determine who might be a "terrorist threat," and anyone on that list has no rights. Personally, I don't trust the man (or any government official) to that extent.

    It is scary to see that you have so much faith in The Obama, that you're willing to give him arbitrary powers of life and death over every American citizen.

    Yes, respect for the Constitution. The President is also granted the power of Commander in Chief in the Constitution. We are at war with an enemy. Al-Wakof or whatever his name is has declared Jihad (war for those of you playing the home version of the game) on the US. The President has an OBLIGATION under the Constitution to protect this country from ALL enemies, foreign and domestic.

    There is absolutely nothing wrong with killing your enemy in war. It's kinda one of the rules. It's been like that for like 14,000 years.

    If he surrenders or shows up on American soil, then he should not be killed. Otherwise, $25 and a case of beer to the CIA agent or member of our military that pops him.
     

    antsi

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    If the government loses this case it will open the floodgates for terrorist recruiting of American citizens.

    Let me get this straight. You're saying that we have massive crowds of Americans who are all saying, at this moment,

    "Gosh, my life ambition is to become a terrorist and sacrifice my life to kill as many American citizens as I can. But, you know, right now the government has the right to kill me without a trial if I do that... and that's just too dangerous for me. So I guess I'll just become a dentist, instead. But, if the civil libertarians win this lawsuit and the government has to put me on trial to kill me, then the first thing I'm going to do is report to my local Al Queda recruitment center and strap on a bunch of IEDs. Death to the Great Satan!"

    Seems to me, Al Queda's recruitment pool is unlikely to be the kind of folks who spend a lot of time worrying about their personal safety. If you're willing to blow yourself up, you're probably willing to risk Obama putting you on a death list.
     

    SemperFiUSMC

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    Let me get this straight. You're saying that we have massive crowds of Americans who are all saying, at this moment,

    "Gosh, my life ambition is to become a terrorist and sacrifice my life to kill as many American citizens as I can. But, you know, right now the government has the right to kill me without a trial if I do that... and that's just too dangerous for me. So I guess I'll just become a dentist, instead. But, if the civil libertarians win this lawsuit and the government has to put me on trial to kill me, then the first thing I'm going to do is report to my local Al Queda recruitment center and strap on a bunch of IEDs. Death to the Great Satan!"

    Dearborn much?
     

    antsi

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    Dearborn much?

    Yeah, I know there are a bunch of Muslims in Dearborn.

    What you're asserting is that they're all sitting around waiting on the outcome of a court case to decide whether they're willing to risk blowing themselves up. It's preposterous. If they're willing to blow themselves up, do you think they really care whether Obama has to put them on trial to kill them or not?
     

    SemperFiUSMC

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    Yeah, I know there are a bunch of Muslims in Dearborn.

    What you're asserting is that they're all sitting around waiting on the outcome of a court case to decide whether they're willing to risk blowing themselves up. It's preposterous. If they're willing to blow themselves up, do you think they really care whether Obama has to put them on trial to kill them or not?

    Lord help me. Can people not read?

    If the government loses this case it will open the floodgates for terrorist recruiting of American citizens.

    Google. Read. Think. In that order. I'm off my meds and not in a spoon-feeding mood right now.
     
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    It's not about having sympathy for terrorists.

    It is about having respect for the Constitution and the Rule of Law.

    Once you give government this power to violate the freedoms (up to an including assassination) of anyone they declare a terrorist, you just might be surprised who gets labelled a "terrorist." We've already had a homeland security director declare that TEA Party supporters and gun owners are "domestic terrorist threats." That could be you and me and everyone else on INGO, buddy.

    The Soviet Union did the same thing in Stalin's day. If you got the label of "Enemy of the People," all kinds of things could happen to you. And, just by coincidence, anyone Stalin didn't like was an "Enemy of the People." Nobody had to be proven to be an enemy of the people, there was no way to fight this charge or appeal it. Once you're on that list, you're a dead man - or in a Gulag, which was worse.

    I guess what you're saying is that you trust Obama and his cronies to determine who might be a "terrorist threat," and anyone on that list has no rights. Personally, I don't trust the man (or any government official) to that extent.

    It is scary to see that you have so much faith in The Obama, that you're willing to give him arbitrary powers of life and death over every American citizen.
    :yesway: I am all for eliminating terrorist threats, but the Patriot Act really broadened the term of "terrorist". I remember Ruby Ridge and Waco and this is familiar enough that it is scary. I do not own a tin foil hat, but those two incidents were heinous and the government had absolutely no reason to conduct themselves in the manner that they did. There were better ways to "remove the threats". The quote below should scare any American.

    As the saying goes, "those who trade liberty for security have neither liberty nor security." While many cry the mantra of "get the terrorists no matter what so I can feel warm and fuzzy", they do not realize what a treasonous government can do when given that permission.

    "There are no mitigating factors, here. Obama is arguing the executive has the power to execute American citizens without a trial, without even so much as an airing of the charges against them, and that it can do so in complete secrecy, with no oversight from any court, and that the families of the executed have no legal recourse."
     

    Joe Williams

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    It's not about having sympathy for terrorists.

    snip.

    Yes, it is.

    I find it hard to believe that you are not smart enough to see the difference between American citizens, even criminals, going about their business here at home, and a man actively waging war against the United States. If that man wants to take advantage of his Constitutional protections, all he has to do is turn himself in and face trial. Otherwise, he can die just like the others waging war on this country and killing our citizens. He's betrayed this nation, and those bleating on his behalf are helping him do it, IMHO.
     

    jbombelli

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    Some people just insist on trusting our federal government to make the right decision regarding who is a target for assassination.

    Like at Ruby Ridge.

    And Waco.

    Wait until you say something they don't like, and they put YOU on that list.

    You want them dead? Do it right. Secret assassinations with no oversight is NOT the right way to do things.
     
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    Jul 27, 2010
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    Yes, it is.

    I find it hard to believe that you are not smart enough to see the difference between American citizens, even criminals, going about their business here at home, and a man actively waging war against the United States. If that man wants to take advantage of his Constitutional protections, all he has to do is turn himself in and face trial. Otherwise, he can die just like the others waging war on this country and killing our citizens. He's betrayed this nation, and those bleating on his behalf are helping him do it, IMHO.
    This is a real question: Why are/were there so many terrorists sent across the ocean to Gitmo to await trial (at our expense), and this guy is put in snipers crosshairs?

    I am not for any terrorists rights, but this is a blatant double standard.
     

    SemperFiUSMC

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    Some people just insist on trusting our federal government to make the right decision regarding who is a target for assassination.

    Like at Ruby Ridge.

    And Waco.

    Wait until you say something they don't like, and they put YOU on that list.

    You want them dead? Do it right. Secret assassinations with no oversight is NOT the right way to do things.

    Agree about Ruby Ridge. Agree about Waco. Agree with everything you said.

    By virtue of the fact we are having the discussion, I would say the the assassination order is not a secret. Just a wild guess.

    This is a real question: Why are/were there so many terrorists sent across the ocean to Gitmo to await trial (at our expense), and this guy is put in snipers crosshairs?

    I am not for any terrorists rights, but this is a blatant double standard.

    Because Obama the Impailer was not President at the time?

    Actually, it's because Obama closed Gitmo to new vacationers. January 20, 2009. I read about it in the paper.
     

    Joe Williams

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    I knew Ruby Ridge and Waco would be brought up.

    It's a baseless comparison.

    I would like to see the vids of Randy Weaver advocating people wage world war against the United States, see the videos he distributed urging acts of mass murder against our citizens while he sits in the camps of self declared enemies of not just our nation but our entire way of life plotting our demise.
     
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