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  1. #21
    Expert Bondhead88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrjarrell View Post
    This is the problem. You're speaking from both propaganda and feelings. Actual science disagrees with you and provides evidence contrary to your opinion. Pot is not a gateway drug.

    Marijuana as a Gateway Drug: The Myth That Will Not Die – TIME Healthland

    Study says marijuana no gateway drug | Science Blog

    Not going to flame you, just going to point out the error in your thinking.
    Actually science does disagree with me and so does my life working with addicts both in Canada, Mexico or the US and I figure when I go to Peru I will find the same thing.

    It is funny when people who have agendas like the legalization of marijuana find publishing saying it is not a gateway drug and then ignore the large truth to the matter.

    I also don't hold to the propaganda that the government needs to regulate everything. I am a large individualist who belives in the rights of the individual but I am not a Libertarian as it is impossible to be one.

    But being blind to a fact that marijuana starts people on a road to addiction is like saying I don't care if you say the sun rises in the east i am going to look west every morning.

    I understand what you are saying don't give me the facts I have already made up my mind and I have people who agree with my philosophy and have published articles to back up what I want done.

    There is no error to my thinking I have vast experience in dealing with addicts. I have spoke all over the US and Canada on this subject both with groups that are dealing with addicted people in their lives and with others who are seeking information.

    Last year I drove over 65,000 miles around the US and Canada and I will be back on the road in January.

    So I will weigh my vast experience in this area against your opinion.

    I am not trying to be rude, you are entitled to your opinion and whether I agree with you or not I will stand up for your right to hold to your opinion.

    But please don't tell me that you are going to point out the error in your thinking

    That is an egotistical thought process that says you understand both my heart and my purpose.
    A new magazine! I never saw it before.
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  2. #22
    Grandmaster rambone's Avatar
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    Sounds like you were quite a busy guy last year, dealing with addicts. That tells me that prohibition laws aren't stopping any them from following their addiction. Am I right?

    Do you think Alcohol should be banned too? I have known a lot more people who's life has been destroyed by alcohol than marijuana. Is it the government's job to tell everybody they can do something because a few people destroy their lives?

    Can we afford to keep up this expensive and fruitless fight? Is the degradation of our liberty worth it, given the lack of any conceivable benefits to the War on Drugs?
    In Soviet Amerika, the Law violates YOU

  3. #23
    Expert Bondhead88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rambone View Post
    Sounds like you were quite a busy guy last year, dealing with addicts. That tells me that prohibition laws aren't stopping any them from following their addiction. Am I right?

    Do you think Alcohol should be banned too? I have known a lot more people who's life has been destroyed by alcohol than marijuana. Is it the government's job to tell everybody they can do something because a few people destroy their lives?

    Can we afford to keep up this expensive and fruitless fight? Is the degradation of our liberty worth it, given the lack of any conceivable benefits to the War on Drugs?
    I will never agree that because a fight against something is expensive that we should stop and give up and change. it is not a degredation to our liberty to put right to the wrong.

    Neither is combating wrong fruitless. Enslaving people is enslaving people.

    If you read the articles and reasons for ending prohibition you will find they went back against everything they said and were dead wrong in how the laws would be applied, how taxation would work, who would be in control of it and how society would be better off as the cost was too great. they were wrong about ending prohibition and they are wrong about legalizing drugs.
    A new magazine! I never saw it before.
    Of course you never. Only us explorers can get it.I've been nominated for membershipin the National Geographic Society.

  4. #24
    Grandmaster rambone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondhead88 View Post
    I will never agree that because a fight against something is expensive that we should stop and give up and change.
    Some day countries like China are going to stop lending us money to chase our tails. When the USA is bankrupt, we will have a lot worse things to worry about than people smoking pot.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bondhead88 View Post
    it is not a degredation to our liberty to put right to the wrong.
    Of course it is. The Police State is thriving on the idea that there can be "banned" substances and plants. Instead of police giving us our speeding tickets and being done with us, we often have to do the song and dance about where we are going, whats in the car, yada yada. We've seen violent drug raids that result in police killing pets, and homeowners defending themselves from midnight raiders breaking down their doors. We've got checkpoints set up across the country, and harmless old men going to jail for having a pocket full of plants. It is outrageous, and there is no question in my mind that the War on Drugs is a huge affront to our liberty.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bondhead88 View Post
    Neither is combating wrong fruitless. Enslaving people is enslaving people.
    Everything that is "wrong" doesn't need to become something that our tax dollars are dumped into like a black hole. Adultery is "wrong" and ruins lives. Morbid obesity is "wrong" and ruins lives. Cigarettes, alcohol, you name it. We could create quite the list of things that are "wrong."

    The point is that it is not a legitimate and constitutional cause to spend our tax-money on. And the laws certainly don't stop addicts from being addicts. Seems pretty fruitless to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bondhead88 View Post
    If you read the articles and reasons for ending prohibition you will find they went back against everything they said and were dead wrong in how the laws would be applied, how taxation would work, who would be in control of it and how society would be better off as the cost was too great. they were wrong about ending prohibition and they are wrong about legalizing drugs.
    They were wrong about ending alcohol prohibition? Did I read that correctly?
    In Soviet Amerika, the Law violates YOU

  5. #25
    Master level.eleven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondhead88 View Post
    I will never agree that because a fight against something is expensive that we should stop and give up and change. it is not a degredation to our liberty to put right to the wrong.

    Neither is combating wrong fruitless. Enslaving people is enslaving people.

    If you read the articles and reasons for ending prohibition you will find they went back against everything they said and were dead wrong in how the laws would be applied, how taxation would work, who would be in control of it and how society would be better off as the cost was too great. they were wrong about ending prohibition and they are wrong about legalizing drugs.
    Well, at least you are consistent in your prohibition. I honestly have never encountered someone who wants to revert back to alcohol prohibition. In my attempt to gain insight into your position, would it be inappropriate of me to ask if you are affiliated with the LDS church? I only ask because you mentioned your travels as well. I certainly wouldn't be offended if you told me bugger off, as well.

  6. #26
    Expert Bondhead88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by level.eleven View Post
    Well, at least you are consistent in your prohibition. I honestly have never encountered someone who wants to revert back to alcohol prohibition. In my attempt to gain insight into your position, would it be inappropriate of me to ask if you are affiliated with the LDS church? I only ask because you mentioned your travels as well. I certainly wouldn't be offended if you told me bugger off, as well.
    Hi level.eleven,

    No I am a Baptist Missionary. and I would never tell anyone to bugger off. Whether or not i agree with someones opinion doesn't mean I don't believe they are entitled to it.

    There are opinions I don't agree with that I respect, there are opinions that I do not respect and there are opinions I vehemently oppose, some i will not even debate but that never removes me from the place that everyone is allowed to their opinion and voice it.

    I strongly disagree with rambone but I do not agree with anyone trying to silence him, i wish that people would learn their heritage and what they are perpetrating is not what was started by the Founding Fathers and i wish people would understand that both Anarchists and Libertarians have been used as tools of facists, socialists and communists.

    Every time we try and say I don't want to infringe my values or beliefs on others is to miss that you just infringed you values and beliefs on others.

    I am an individualist but I cannot sell myself into indentured servitude, even if I say I am only affecting myself. we do not allow incest even if it is two consenting adults .

    There are rules to any society and the further we fall into the mistaken belief that we should be allowed to do whatever we want, whenever we want, however we want, the further we will see our society destroyed.

    we have to have a balance of freedom for the individual (as much as possible) vs having an orderly society where the government does not get involved in the personal business of it's citizens (as little as possible)
    A new magazine! I never saw it before.
    Of course you never. Only us explorers can get it.I've been nominated for membershipin the National Geographic Society.

  7. #27
    Grandmaster rambone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bondhead88 View Post
    i wish that people would learn their heritage and what they are perpetrating is not what was started by the Founding Fathers and i wish people would understand that both Anarchists and Libertarians have been used as tools of facists, socialists and communists.

    Every time we try and say I don't want to infringe my values or beliefs on others is to miss that you just infringed you values and beliefs on others.
    I am sort of curious what you have to say about Libertarians, but it is way off topic for this thread. Would you like to create a thread and explain some of this? I saw that you wrote that true libertarians do not exist. I am curious how you feel they are being used by communists and fascists also. I think such a thread holds great potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bondhead88 View Post
    we have to have a balance of freedom for the individual (as much as possible) vs having an orderly society where the government does not get involved in the personal business of it's citizens (as little as possible)
    I would like to suggest to you that the idea that government can tell you what you are not allowed to eat, drink, smoke, and what plants you are not allowed to grow and own... Is one of the most controlling concepts ever conceived by governments in all of history.

    If a government can "ban" a naturally-occurring plant, then there is truly nothing that they couldn't ban. Additionally, a government that can make laws telling you what NOT to drink can also make laws telling you what you MUST drink. There are no limits on this government and that is truly scary.
    Last edited by rambone; 12-03-2010 at 18:49.
    In Soviet Amerika, the Law violates YOU

  8. #28
    Expert Bondhead88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rambone View Post
    I am sort of curious what you have to say about Libertarians, but it is way off topic for this thread. Would you like to create a thread and explain some of this? I saw that you wrote that true libertarians do not exist. I am curious how you feel they are being used by communists and fascists also. I think such a thread holds great potential.



    I would like to suggest to you that the idea that government can tell you what you are not allowed to eat, drink, smoke, and what plants you are not allowed to grow and own... Is one of the most controlling concepts ever conceived by governments in all of history.

    If a government can "ban" a naturally-occurring plant, then there is truly nothing that they couldn't ban. Additionally, a government that can make laws telling you what NOT to drink can also make laws telling you what you MUST drink. There are no limits on this government and that is truly scary.
    That's a faulty argument, there are many things that occur in nature that you cannot own or handle safely.

    Nature is not benign it is a living thing that can kill. Non of this means I believe that the government has a right to control everything the individual does. Nor do I believe the government has a right to try and keep me safe from myself.

    Anybody who knows me knows I do not want the government in every or all aspects of my life.

    but drugs are tools of enslavement and it is wrong. I am not going to go round and round with this. Neither you nor I have the right anywhere to do whatever we want. we were not given this right by anybody and certainly not by the founders. if you studied the autobiographies of the founding fathers you would quickly come to realize this.

    They laid out obligations, to your country, your country men, to your family, to God in fact.

    I am going to end this here as i doubt this will convince you. again i say you are entitled to your opinion.
    A new magazine! I never saw it before.
    Of course you never. Only us explorers can get it.I've been nominated for membershipin the National Geographic Society.

  9. #29
    Grandmaster mrjarrell's Avatar
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    Looks like they dropped the felony charge against Willie and went with a misdemeanor. Glad to see that a lawyer brought up the point that this unConstitutional checkpoint was 100 miles away from any border and had no business stopping anyone.

    Willie Nelson Dodges Felony Charge | Rolling Stone Music
    KYFHO

  10. #30
    Grandmaster theweakerbrother's Avatar
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    Making marijuana illegal because of potential addiction is like banning McDonalds because you're worried about thin people turning into fat people.
    "If not now, then when?" - הלל

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